Eat My Words

Johanna Almstea...: Oh, I'm having the best time planning the menu for this next guest. She is a foodie and a winey. What do you call someone? A wino? No. She's a lover of beautiful food. She's a lover of great wine, and she and I share a great love of Italian food. So for tonight, I'm going to go big on the Italian food because she's a good eater. I'm going to start with a proper full-on antipasto spread. I'm going to do a bunch of meats and cheeses. I'm going to do prosciutto. I'm going to do mortadella. I'm going to do salamis, all the different kinds of salamis, and I'm going to do some good cheeses. I love a big, just ginormous hunk of aged Parmigiano Reggiano, and you just carve off big chunks of it, and it has this nutty texture, which I love, and a little bit of fresh mozzarella.
A couple more cheeses, and then I'm going to do a giardinieri, which I think in English it's just called giardinier, but it's pickled veggies, traditional pickled vegetables. It's cauliflower, celery, carrots, sometimes little baby button mushrooms that have been... And they're all marinated and pickled, so they're really flavorful. And then I'll also have some amazing castelvetrano the side.
We're going to do a big hunk of bread and a really good bowl of olive oil, dipping olive oil. This is super flavorful and high-end, maybe not one that you would always cook with, but a dipping oil. I like to put a little bit of chili flake and black pepper in it, and then a little bit of flaky sea salt. So then you'd rip off a hunk of bread. You dip it in the olive oil, so soaks your bread up a little bit. Then you pile on some of the meat, some of the cheese, and then you top it with a pickled veggie. Ooh, it is so good. And you shove the whole thing in your mouth. It's delicious.
With that, I am going to open a bottle of chilled brachetto, which is a sparkling red wine. It's a little on the sweeter side, which I don't generally love and I can't drink a lot of, but I love it to contrast with the super salty and acidy and fatty of the meat. It's just a really festive drink, and it's very traditionally Italian, so we're going to have a bottle of brachetto with our salty meats and cheeses. We're just going to keep going with the salt, by the way, for this one.
And then for dinner, it's got to be pasta. I don't want anything too heavy, so I'm going to do a pasta puttanesca. I do a tuna puttanesca, so I use a little tuna in the sauce too, but it's a tomato-based sauce and it has tuna, and then capers and Kalamata olives and garlic and yummy stuff over pasta. I'm going to do more bread, I think a seeded semolina bread that we can just tear off and dip into the sauce because the sauce is so flavorful. It's really, really salty and savory. It's not even that fishy. It's just got this umami flavor.
And then to contrast that, I think for the salad I'm just going to keep it really simple because the pasta is very flavorful. So I'm just going to do some baby gem lettuce, I think maybe some fresh herbs in there. And then a simple shallot red wine vinaigrette. Nothing crazy. And with dinner, I'm going to open a big old bottle of Chianti. For old time's sake, she and I used to always be searching out the Chianti, so I'm going to open up some Chianti with this pasta and have a wonderful meal with my friend.
I'm really excited for you to get to meet her. She is kind and hilarious and big hearted and intuitive and so, so smart, and I really hope you guys enjoy our conversation. Let's dig in.

Hello everyone, and welcome to Eat My Words. The podcast today is very, very special to me because I'm so lucky to have a dear friend of mine from what seems like literally another lifetime. She and I met during a brief three-year stint that I had living in Los Angeles in my 20s and was working in the entertainment and hospitality business, which makes it sound much more glamorous than it was. Now, nearly 20 years later, she is a secret weapon to many in the entertainment industry with her work as an on-set acting coach for film and television projects like NBC's This is Us, Paradise, Ryan Murphy's Dr. Odyssey. And she just got back from coaching on the third season of a hit Netflix show that was filmed in South Korea, which I cannot wait to talk to you about.
She is known for her no BS safe space meat and potatoes technique, which I really want to know what that means, approach to acting. She works with actors across the globe on film and TV sets, at camps, schools, and theater companies, ranging from LAByrinth Theater Companies, Masterclass to hit network TV shows. She is also the founder of the Real Actor's Lab where she regularly teaches classes and workshops, coaches actors for auditions, and helps working actors prepare for challenging scenes and roles. She is known best for helping actors get out of their heads so they can tell the story.
She is a wife, a mom to two young girls, a daughter, a sister, an auntie, a dear friend, a cat mom, which is so weird, and a champion of actors and artists. She is also a foodie and a super taster. Fun fact, she is the only person who has successfully pulled off a surprise party for me, which was '80s themed and amazing. That was so much fun. Sarah Gaboury-Pittenger, welcome to Eat My Words.
Sarah Gaboury: Hello. Thank you. That was a lovely intro.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, thank you for joining me, especially so early in the morning. It is a testament to the life that you're living that we had such a hard time scheduling this because you're busy.
Sarah Gaboury: I'm busy. We're busy this phase, this chapter of life. Sometimes I think back on those times when I'm like, I think of you and me on the patio of Earth Cafe.
Johanna Almstea...: Totally. Being like, "We could stay here for three hours and eat our salads and drink our iced coffee."
Sarah Gaboury: With a Mediterranean plate and just talk about how we think it's all going to go.
Johanna Almstea...: Totally. It's funny, I actually have that to talk to you about later is the idea that we used to just dream. We used to just bullshit and dream about what our life was going to be like.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. And I think we also felt busy, which is funny.
Johanna Almstea...: That's hilarious. Yes, because busy was not even... The busy that we are now is a whole different ball of wax.
Sarah Gaboury: Very different.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, thank you so much for being here. As I've mentioned in other episodes, my secret ulterior motive for doing this podcast is getting to catch up with my friends, and we are so long overdue for a proper catch up, so thank you for indulging me.
Sarah Gaboury: This is perfect.
Johanna Almstea...: This is perfect. We get to do this and work at the same time. Okay, I always like to give people context for how we know each other. We met when you were a cocktail waitress and I was a bartender at the Viceroy Hotel in Santa Monica.
Sarah Gaboury: Oh, my God.
Johanna Almstea...: We were also both working as actors and pursuing a path in the entertainment industry, but man, that job was bonkers.
Sarah Gaboury: It really was.
Johanna Almstea...: Bonkers. It was absurd. We worked at this hotel that was very swanky. And we worked there when it first opened up. And it was this hotspot-
Sarah Gaboury: Total hotspot.
Johanna Almstea...: ... for celebrities and Hollywood people. And it was just so silly. And there were always a million fancy sport cars outside and there was bouncers. And we just lived in this weird world of serving drinks to celebrities.
Sarah Gaboury: Every once in a while, I'll bump into people who were some of those regulars like Owen Wilson, and it just takes me instantly back. Remember when Owen Wilson told me he liked my hair? Do you remember this?
Johanna Almstea...: Yes. And you're like, "It's kind of like yours."
Sarah Gaboury: I said, "No, that's funny because we kind of have the same hair." And he's like, "Oh yeah, we do."
Johanna Almstea...: Do you remember when my mom called me and she was like, "I read an article in People Magazine about this nice boy who lives in Santa Monica, and his name is Luke Wilson. And I think you should date him. I think he would be a great guy for you."
Sarah Gaboury: Oh, my God.
Johanna Almstea...: And I was like, "Okay, mom." And then he ended up coming into the bar a couple days later, and I was like, "Maybe it's meant to be, me and Luke Wilson."
Sarah Gaboury: Me and Luke.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. Oh God, how absurd. I won't name the name of the celebrity, but I did also remember... Do you remember the celebrity who slipped me his hotel room key and tried to get me to come to his hotel room?
Sarah Gaboury: Yes, I do.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. Guys, it was scandalous.
Sarah Gaboury: Do you remember the celebrity that tried to get me to go off to Belgium with him?
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, yes. Oh, my God. Crazy. Guys, people are crazy.
Sarah Gaboury: People are crazy.
Johanna Almstea...: It was crazy. Okay, one of the first things we bonded over while working in this madness was our shared love of Italian food. Do you remember that we would always-
Sarah Gaboury: I knew we were going to talk, but there was no way we were not going to talk about Italian food.
Johanna Almstea...: We had to talk about Italian food. You and I had both lived in Italy, and every Sunday we would crave Italian food. And we would go on this hunt around LA to find the best Italian food and vibes, which we never really found. But what was that place in West LA that we would go to?
Sarah Gaboury: [inaudible 00:05:49] place. Well, also because this was really before Yelp. There was no good ranking system, so it was a lot of just trial and error.
Johanna Almstea...: No. Maybe there was a Zagat guide. Did we have maybe a Zagat guide that we were reading or something? I don't know. How did we even find these places?
Sarah Gaboury: It's so funny. It feels like it's 100 years ago. That place was called La Bruschetta.
Johanna Almstea...: La Bruschetta. And it was this weird... It was ginormous and bright.
Sarah Gaboury: Super cheesy.
Johanna Almstea...: It was not a vibe from a... Super cheesy.
Sarah Gaboury: But that is kind of Italian. There are those beautiful Italian restaurants in Italy in the caves, but there also are a lot of overly lit.
Johanna Almstea...: It's true.
Sarah Gaboury: And it had a big, cheesy ass sign outside. We got there and we were like-
Johanna Almstea...: In weird script like La Bruschetta.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, it was huge, big lit up light. Yeah, Westwood.
Johanna Almstea...: Westwood. And we were like, "We have to drink Chianti." We would always want Chianti and giant bowls of pasta.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. We did that. But then there was also the little place on Montana, the little place called... Was it Locanda Portofino?
Johanna Almstea...: Yes. Whoa. I had not remembered that.
Sarah Gaboury: We had a little seafood pasta with just slightly cooked cherry tomatoes, and it was perfect. That was also the closest I feel like we came.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes, that was really good. I totally forgot about that place.
Sarah Gaboury: That was a good one.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay, we could actually talk about pasta the entire time, but I feel like we should talk a little bit about your work and your life. I feel like I want to know more about how you spend your days because I'm not sure that everyone understands what an acting coach does particularly on set. Can you tell us what that looks like? What does your day look like?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, it's so cool. When I started coaching, I remember thinking, oh my God, it'd be so fun to be an acting coach on set, but I wonder what they do. You know what I mean? I wonder what or how it works. And the truth is that it's different for every show depending on what the need is and who I'm there for.
People always ask... Actors love to ask this question, and even people who work in the industry because it's always so different, how I get brought in; who hires me. And typically for me, it's usually the productions that hire me. It'll be I'll get a call from a line producer. And there's usually a population or a person that I'm technically there for, but not always. Like the show I just did in Korea, I was pretty much there for everybody. And so even when I'm there though, I'm there all the way. If there's a scene with a bunch of actors and I'm sitting behind the monitor, I can support with everything.
And so it's really that I'm there for the director. I am there to support the actors, but I'm working very closely with the director. And I have to be very careful not to step on toes and build that trust because if I haven't had... Sometimes I get a certain amount of prep beforehand with the actors before we ever step on set, but a lot of productions won't budget for that, and so I'm there trying to help fix situations in the moment. And the director is really usually the one who wants to be the one talking to the actors, but sometimes some directors are like, "Can you just get in there? Can you help me? Can you just go?" It's about me working really closely with the director to figure out what their flow is and what they want.
But television's actually really dysfunctional in many ways a lot of the time, and there's so many people who are there with notes. In one situation I was doing prep, and I had this producer, this creative producer who was like, "Here's what I want from this actor and this actor. And this scene is very specifically this. And here's how I want it to play out." This producer gave me lots of really specific notes. I got to prepare the actors. That producer wasn't there the day of, we're filming and the director and the writer are completely taking the scene in a totally different direction. I've spent all this time helping the actors get to this place, and then I'm watching it just being like, "I don't know what to do." And the actors are looking at me, "What do I do?" And I'm like, "You do what the director tells you to do."
Johanna Almstea...: You're never stopping and being like, "That's not the way we're talking about it," you're just letting the director do what the director does and you just have to roll with it.
Sarah Gaboury: Yes. And over time, if I work with directors a bunch, which some of them who will be EPs on the show who come back and direct multiple episodes, we'll develop a trust. And I can have a more open conversation, but I have to... It's very anxiety producing in the beginning, especially just coming in to a new set, to a new show with a new director and coming in and being like, "Hey, want me to help you do the thing that you're supposed to be really good at?"
But really, the directors don't have time. They're being shown iPads to pick out costumes and horror makeup and all these things for episodes ahead, so they don't have time to get ahead of a guest star that's maybe pushing a little bit or... When I have that trust, I can be like, "Hey, I saw this person rehearsing, and I'm concerned about this, this, and this." And this one woman who I work really well with, she's like, "Oh yeah, go, go; get in there. Go fix it." But I have to be really careful to know what they want and to try to help deliver that. It's really helpful. Sometimes I'll be in on tone meetings, I'll be in on the table read so that I actually really know-
Johanna Almstea...: Wait, what's a tone meeting? I don't know what a tone meeting is.
Sarah Gaboury: There are tone meetings for episodes where the showrunner is really talking about how they want the episode to play out. The first time I was in on one of those, I was like, "This is so helpful. Why am I not always in on the tone meetings so that I can really help you get what you want rather than guessing?"
Johanna Almstea...: Are you ever whispering in the director's ear? Say it's a director who wants to be the one that's talking to the actors. They don't want you to step in. Do you ever give the director notes to give to them? "Just tell them to think about their dead mother," or whatever.
Sarah Gaboury: Sometimes. Sometimes I have to really choose my battles, you know?
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Sarah Gaboury: Because there are times when I'll be watching this scene, and I'm like, "Oh, she's not listening. That didn't land. Let's try to figure out how this is going to go deeper." And then there's this pause after they call cut and somebody will say, "Is her face shiny?" And you're just like, "Okay, all right, well, just let it go." Yeah, sometimes I'll be like, "I'm wondering about if it feels like this moment isn't totally landing. I have a thought if you want me to pitch it." I'll try to throw it out there. And if it feels like they're not getting what they want, I'll say, "Here's a thought. Do you want me to throw something out that might help?"
There was a woman I worked with so well, and she's such a fucking badass genius director, and I love her. We worked so well together. And she's like, "Go." I'd come back, and she'd go, "What'd you tell them? Oh my God, that's so good." She was such a collaborator. I love these directors who aren't giving a shit about ego. And I just want to make it work. I just want to make it work. I want to collaborate with people and make the story work, so it's nice when there's no bullshit in the way.
Johanna Almstea...: That feels like a very delicate dance. And I can imagine knowing some of the egos that can be on sets that that's really hard. How do you foster that collaboration other than just luck of the draw and you just happen to get a great director? How do you foster it?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, that's such a good question. I have a mantra that I use on set, especially if it's a first day with a new director that I'm scared of to look at their credits, and I'm like, "Oh God, what am I doing here?" You know what I mean? "They don't need me."
Johanna Almstea...: "Why did they hire me?"
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, "Why am I here?" And I'll tell myself... My mantra is I do my work. I do not prove my worth. And that'll help me every time to just be like, "Give your note."
Johanna Almstea...: Do the thing.
Sarah Gaboury: Do the thing. It's not about me trying to prove myself. Or I'll get in my head sometimes of they hate you, they think you're stupid. You know what I mean? And I'm like, it's so real though. And to a certain extent everybody's feeling like that.
Johanna Almstea...: I was going to say, I bet you everyone on that set is feeling the same way.
Sarah Gaboury: Even the writer. Yeah. That actually helps me a lot just to get over my shit.
Johanna Almstea...: I do my work. I do not prove my worth. I love that.
Sarah Gaboury: And I share that with actors too who are also feeling scared when they get to set, scared that they're doing it wrong. A lot of the time, actors are like... They really think that if a director's giving them a note that they fucked something up. And I'm like, "It's really not the case." I saw this one thing on a show where this woman, she's a great seasoned actor, and she came in with this choice, and I think this is what she had done in her tape, but just to also be honest, a lot of times the directors haven't seen the audition tape in television.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, really?
Sarah Gaboury: They haven't always. Some of them always watch everything, but a lot of times they can't. And so I don't think he had seen-
Johanna Almstea...: How do they decide to hire that person?
Sarah Gaboury: Producers. Writer producers. Yeah.
Sarah Gaboury: And so she came in with I think what she did in her tape, and then the director was like, "Let's let it play out like this," and gives her this other note. And she's like, "Oh no, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. You're right, you're right." And I was like, "No sorry. That was a great take." And ultimately, the take they used was that first one; was the one that she led with.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, really?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. And that happens a lot too. Even actors who've been doing this a long time that just feel like, "Oh God, I'm screwing up," it's just a let's try this, let's try this. Let's find out. Try not to make it about doing it for them. I always think about Brené Brown's in her book... I think it's The Gifts of Imperfection. Did you ever read that one?
Johanna Almstea...: No, I never read that one.
Sarah Gaboury: Oh, it's so good. She talks about perfectionism. And she says, "The difference between perfectionism and healthy striving is that perfectionism I'm doing it for them, healthy striving I'm doing it for myself." And so anytime I get into that spinning place, I'm like, "Who am I doing this for?" You know?
Johanna Almstea...: Right. What's the best part of your job?
Sarah Gaboury: I love when I get into those really good flows with the people who let me do my job. Because I think what I love about going to set, because I have my whole coaching studio and I'm just working directly with the actor, and that's great, but I love going to set and having a whole team collaboration. I love making a thing with people. I love sitting at lunch with the camera operator.
In Korea, I got to meet all these people from a totally different part of the world and meet this Korean crew. I love the connection and the community of a great set of a great crew of that bonding with people, and then when I'm on a show where they really do let me do my job and it's not just about people's egos. You know?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I think it's so interesting because I think a lot of people who have never been on a set or worked in the entertainment industry probably have no idea how many actual people are on a set-
Sarah Gaboury: God, it's crazy.
Johanna Almstea...: ... when you're filming a TV show or a movie. It's often hundreds of people. If it's a big movie or whatever, there's many, many, many, many people.
Sarah Gaboury: Many people.
Johanna Almstea...: An entire village.
Sarah Gaboury: It's even to think it took me a few days to realize that two of the people I just did this show with in Korea, two of them I had worked with on a different show. And it took us... We're like, "What? I know you. What did we work on?" Because there's so many people. I'm like, "Oh, yeah." That happened with Dr. Odyssey. There was a few people that I was like, "Oh my God, we've worked together. Now we're in Korea. This is weird."
Johanna Almstea...: That's so wild. What's the worst part of your job?
Sarah Gaboury: I think being in the middle in those situations, like that situation I told you about where I'm getting notes from different people who different things or when I'm being used as a way for other people to get what they want, sometimes writers will be telling me what they want out of the performance rather than talking to the director about it where I'm being used as this pawn. I don't like that.
Johanna Almstea...: I had a friend on who was a music supervisor for film and television, and she said that she often gets put in the middle of things like that too. Where you're like, "I'm definitely being used as a vessel for which people's agendas are..." They're vying for their agenda.
Sarah Gaboury: I think the other thing that is the hardest, and this doesn't happen a lot, but when I'm working with actors, as you know, there's a lot of people who use very different approaches in their performance. Their approach to acting is maybe different than how I trained. And so when I'm getting put in prep with an actor who maybe producers aren't super happy with what's going on, but I'm getting resistance from the actor who's like, "Well, I don't work before I get to set. I like to step on set and say the words for the first time." And I'm like, "I don't know what to tell you, bud." It's really finding a way to secretly do the coaching in a covert way to help the performance come through in a way that's not going to piss this person off. But I'm like, "We got to work on it."
Johanna Almstea...: Right. "I'm hired to do this."
Sarah Gaboury: When there's a resistance and a unwillingness to be coached from actors who production wants them to be coached, that's hard. That puts me in a weird situation too because I have to be like, "Look, they came to their coaching walking outside around a whole bunch of people, and they can't even really hear me," if it's Zoom prep or something. It's like-
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, I hadn't ever thought about that, that you might have a reluctant actor because you're not necessarily getting hired by the actor to come in and coach them, you're getting hired by the production who's saying, "This actor needs some help, possibly."
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. Yeah, we want this person to be better than they're being. That's hard. It's really hard. And usually people are so grateful to have support because actors can feel very unsupported. They don't get a lot of takes. They don't get a lot of direction. They'll get one or two takes and they're moving on. I think most actors are pretty grateful to have that chance to really work on it with somebody.
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing. When did you know that you wanted to work in the entertainment business?
Sarah Gaboury: Oh my God, forever. Always.
Johanna Almstea...: Out of the womb?
Sarah Gaboury: I think there was that phase when I was acting that I used to pray that I would stop wanting to be an actor. I really did. I was like, "Just want something else." I was just looking for guidance to just be like, "Isn't there something else?" Because it felt like I was just hitting my head against a wall a lot of the time. I didn't want to want it, but I grew up doing theater, and I guess I just didn't ever really think too much about ever doing anything else. And it was just this welcome surprise when I started coaching.
Which really the first time I coached was because my friends had a theater camp, and they asked me to come and teach at their theater camp. And then I did that for so many years. And that was really where I realized that I could teach. That was how I cut my teeth as a teacher. And I loved working with teenagers. I still love working with teenagers. And that was how I learned it. And then I was like, "Oh, there's this whole other side to acting." And then I really fell in love with coaching.
Johanna Almstea...: And did you have the moment where you woke up and you were like, "I don't want to act anymore. I'm okay"?
Sarah Gaboury: It was gradual after my kids, because I was doing both for a while. But I think it was really with my kids. And this was before everything was a self-tape. I just with really little kids, going to Burbank for a 5:00 PM audition with my children or having to hire someone to take care of them and then spending $150 to have an audition is terrible. Not being home for bedtime or whatever, it's just that part, I was like, "I do not want to do this." I thought it was a pause. I told my manager I wasn't going to audition for a while. And then they kept reaching out, "Hey, are you ready to come back? Are you ready to come back?" And I was like, "No, I'm not." And I never went back.
Johanna Almstea...: "No, I think I'm retired."
Sarah Gaboury: I think sometimes I miss acting when I think about actually honestly being in acting class. I miss going to acting class.
Johanna Almstea...: You loved acting class.
Sarah Gaboury: I did.
Johanna Almstea...: You loved going to acting class.
Sarah Gaboury: I did. I could sit in a dark theater in a Larry Moss workshop for 10 hours and just come out and be like, "Ah." I loved it. I could do a play. I could totally do a play one day. I think I'd love that. I think about directing sometimes, but I don't ever really want to be on the other side of the camera anymore.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, you got your wish. You got your wish of not wanting to do it anymore.
Sarah Gaboury: I did. I did.
Johanna Almstea...: It's such a relief, isn't it? I don't know, I found when I finally decided that I didn't want to act anymore, I was like, "Oh."
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, it was.
Johanna Almstea...: The torturous feeling in my stomach is not there anymore. It's gone.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. Yeah, I remember that transition for you too. It was a relief.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it was such a relief. And I can't even believe that I did it as long as I did and was so miserable doing it. But okay, you brought up your kiddos, so I want to talk to you about you just got back from being in South Korea for several weeks, right?
Sarah Gaboury: It was a month at the end because I ended it. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: You have two children, eight and 11 years old. And you and I were messaging when I finally figured out how to use voice messaging again on my phone. We were messaging about what I call is the tug, this whole thing of having work and having these amazing opportunities with work which are completely counter intuitive, counter productive, counter all the things to being a mother.
Sarah Gaboury: So deep.
Johanna Almstea...: That this work literally takes you across the world and immerses you in this creative experience and this challenge and this other culture and this whole other thing, all the juicy, delicious things we want for ourselves when we're thinking about a career opportunity, and they're all diametrically opposed to actually mothering. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that and how you reconcile it and what it feels like for you.
Sarah Gaboury: It's so hard. Because when I first started having conversations with production about doing the job in Korea, they were talking about a couple of weeks, and then it gradually kept being like, "Well, maybe three weeks, maybe four weeks. Maybe you could go home and then come back." And I was just like, "I have a hard time even taking jobs in LA when I'm going to be working those crazy hours of doing a 12-hour, 14-hour, 15-hour day." Even that with my kids at home is really hard because I really do want to be there for them. And I had this, ooh, I'd like to do that job, but I can't. I can't do that. I can't go be in Korea for a month. How is that going to work? I'm pretty deeply embedded in the lives of my children, obviously, you know?
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Sarah Gaboury: You know that feeling. It really was hard for me to decide to take this job. And I had several days where I was spinning a little bit, but ultimately what I came to was I don't feel like I have a clear answer, but what I realized was if I said no, the regret of saying no would be worse than the regret of saying yes when I'm there. If I go and it's too much and the job sucks and I really want to come home, that is a better situation than me saying no to the job and being like, "Fuck. Why didn't I take that job?" You know?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Sarah Gaboury: And I knew I had to do it, but there's so much going on with my kids that's been really challenging and emotionally challenging. And we don't know what middle school my daughter's going... There's so much happening in our family life. I was like, "How could I do that?" This selfishness, this guilt; talked about it a lot in therapy. Yeah, it's so hard. But that's how I made the decision.
Johanna Almstea...: And was it worth it?
Sarah Gaboury: It was worth it. And I knew this going into it, but I was like, I think it's good for them to, A, see me do that; to see me go I think was important. And I think good for the whole family to have an opportunity to be like, "How do we do things when she's gone?"
Johanna Almstea...: "Wait, what happens when someone doesn't bring me my clothing and my food directly to me?"
Sarah Gaboury: "What cat food do we get?" And while I was gone, my cat did eat two hair ties and end up with a bowel obstruction and emergency surgery. That happened. And I remember one of the last things I said as I was leaving was, "Make sure you don't leave out the hair ties," because the cat eats them. And that's a plug for pet insurance because nobody wants to spend $17,000 to save their cat's life.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God, $17,000?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. It was literally $17,000.
Johanna Almstea...: This episode sponsored by pet insurance. Holy shit, that's crazy. I like to ask this question because this theme comes up a lot on this podcast of making the sacrifices as a mother in service of our careers or our creative fulfillment. And I like to always ask the question what do you want your kids to know about this time? They know that you made a sacrifice; they felt it, the cats felt it, your whole family felt it. And you're probably going to make more. There's going to be wonderful opportunities that come again and maybe because of this job, right?
Sarah Gaboury: Mm-hmm.
Johanna Almstea...: You might have opened a gateway to some other amazing project. And so I always like to think about once they're old enough to listen to this podcast when it's appropriate for them, what do you want them to know about this time and you as a mother and you as a professional?
Sarah Gaboury: I guess I want them to know sometimes I guess my fear is that they'll feel like I'm too busy for them. Because it's hard also just having a business and running that from home. It's hard for me to have that separation of time where I'm not like, "I got to answer this email. Let me get back to..." To have them really feel like they have me, they have my attention. I never want them to feel like they're not my priority. I want them to know that part of this is really wanting them... As they get older, I want them to live the life that they want to live. I don't want them to feel that they can't. I don't want them to feel like they have to do what other people want them to do. I want them to go live their big, fullest, most beautiful life.
And that that's part of what this is for me is going out and trying to do that and show them that they can do that too. And I'm working on really trying to make sure that I... I think the biggest gift you can give children is your attention, your full attention when you're with them. And so that's the other thing I'm really working on is that separation of time where I'm like, "I'm going to fully put my phone away. I'm going to cook dinner. I'm going to chat with you." But when I start to get too busy, it feels really bad, it feels really, really bad.
It's also finding my own boundaries around the work because it can creep both ways really easily if I'm not careful, I can neglect the things that I have to do, and I can also feel like I'm not giving them the full focus and time that I want to do. I see the other parents who are volunteering every day in the classroom and doing all the field trips and doing all the booster club stuff, and I'm like, "I can't do it. I cannot do it."
Johanna Almstea...: No.
Sarah Gaboury: But I want to, but I also can't. I shouldn't say can't, I could. I could do it, but I'm not choosing to do it.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. And I don't know, I think sometimes I have those moments, like, oh my God, I was never at field day. I was like, "My mom was never at field day."
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, I missed field day.
Johanna Almstea...: I'm like, "Okay, you can talk about it in therapy for the rest of your life that I wasn't at field day, but you can also talk about the fact that I built a really exciting career and life for you guys too." Listen, we're going to mess them up one way or another, so we might as well try to do the things that fulfill us in the meantime. You know?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. But it is hard with that tug, as you called it. It's really hard to... The guilt that creeps in and feeling afraid that they don't understand that it's not just... My youngest will always say, "But you want to be with us, right? You'd rather be with us." I was like, "I-
Johanna Almstea...: How do you answer that?
Sarah Gaboury: Well, I was like, "I always want to be with you." And I never wanted to be like, "Oh, I have to work." I never wanted to do that in front of them, so I'm like, "I love my job. I'm really lucky I get to do it. There's a lot of actors who really need the support from me right now, and I'm really looking forward to our time together after that." She asks me that question all the time, "But you'd rather." Or when we're snuggling in the morning, "You'd rather keep snuggling right now though, right?"
Johanna Almstea...: You're like, "Actually, no."
Sarah Gaboury: "I do. I loved this snuggle, and now I'm ready for my coffee and I got to get going. I got to get some stuff done."
Johanna Almstea...: Right. Oh man, it's so hard. That's the stuff that I definitely didn't anticipate. I didn't anticipate the actual physical sensation of what that tug was going to feel like.
Sarah Gaboury: Yes. Because that is what it feels like.
Johanna Almstea...: I didn't think I was going to feel it in my body and-
Sarah Gaboury: Ache.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Sarah Gaboury: And being in Korea, it was a great experience, but there was a lot of it that was really hard to enjoy because I was so far away. And I thought, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know. There was a time, because of the time difference was a certain few hours of the day where I knew everybody was asleep, and it was just this culture shock and missing them so much and worrying about certain things so much that it's a deep body, physical aching feeling, like a heartache.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it's hard. How did that conversation go with your lovely partner, Matt? Was he part of your decision making when you decided to take that job? How did that all go down with you guys?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, the timing of all of this was so crazy because he's the GM of a restaurant and he works 800 hours a week, so already we felt like a lack of support. And I talked to him about it. First, I remember texting him, "Oh my God, this job, they want me to go to South Korea." And he was like, "What? Oh, my God." The first conversation, he was like, "You've got to go. You have to go. We'll figure it out." And I was like, "Yeah, but there's also that part of me that's like, 'Will we figure it out?'" Because I feel like I'm going to have to figure it-
Johanna Almstea...: Or will I figure it out?
Sarah Gaboury: I'm going to figure it out because he can't right now. He just is so unavailable. And he doesn't really want to be. He's going through his own whole crisis of, "What am I doing?" But yes, he was really, really supportive, and he always is. And without grandparents, we wouldn't have made it, certainly. The grandparents really stepped up.
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing. You talked a little bit earlier about how we used to have lots of time on our hands to dream and to bullshit. And do you have any time for dreaming anymore? Do you dream anymore?
Sarah Gaboury: You know what? I was thinking of yesterday specifically, and a little bit on Tuesday, I was thinking about this because do you follow that woman, Chani Nicholas on social media? She has an-
Johanna Almstea...: Mm-mm.
Sarah Gaboury: Oh my God, I don't know how you don't follow her. You would love her. You would love her. She has an app, it's an astrology app. And she's so great. And she was talking about what's happening in the stars basically for Tuesday and Wednesday and how these are the times where we're planting these really important seeds for the future, both politically, what that means, but also what seeds we're planting now for the future and what an important time this is. And I was like, "I don't know how much I follow all of it, but I also think it's really just fun." And so I was like, "I'm going to just take some time to write down what I want things to really look like." I did that yesterday. Because I was like, "Why not? Why not just take 10 minutes to dream a little bit?" And I think it's hard, even in my dreaming. I wonder if you feel like this. Even in my dreaming, I'm very practical, so much more practical than I want to be. I'm like, "Well, trying to get too caught up in that. Well, how's that going to happen?" Really? Okay. But I don't want to do that, I want to really dream, so I do a little bit, but I'm also incredibly practical.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. The practicality [inaudible 00:35:20].
Sarah Gaboury: Do you dream? Do you let yourself dream?
Johanna Almstea...: I didn't for a long time, but this podcast is the result of some dreams, I think. We went through, as you know, a really gnarly few years where we had a lot of death and sickness and upheaval in our lives as a family, and there was no time for dreaming. I was just literally white knuckling through every single day. And it was years, many, many, many, many months on end that I was just like, there was no... I remember just I kept chipping this tooth in my sleep because I was literally just gritting all the time.
And so once a lot of that stuff got settled... Because there was definitely a little bit of time where there was nothing was really bad happening anymore, but I just kept waiting for something bad to happen. I kept waiting for somebody else to die or something horrible to happen or somebody to get sick, and I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. Got through a few months of that, which was more just a little less clenched, but still uneasy.
And then it was a few months of that went by, and I was like, "Wait a minute. Okay. Okay, nothing has happened. We're okay. Everyone's good. We've gotten everybody sorted out that needed to be sorted out." And all of a sudden I found myself like, huh, I have dreams again.
Sarah Gaboury: I'm okay.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, there's me that's separate from this whole thing, and I don't have to spend every waking moment figuring out the logistics around somebody else's health or whatever. And it also happened to coincide with getting my hormones sorted out, which I think was also a very big thing for me, which we can talk a lot about on nine million episodes, I think. And all of a sudden I just had a clarity and I had a openness and a little bit of space. It was space in my brain finally where I was like, "Okay." And also, it coincided with my children getting a little bit bigger. They're just a little bit more independent, and so the suck on me was a little bit less, and so I thought-
Sarah Gaboury: Yes, that's a big one.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it really is. And all of a sudden I was like... It was that moment where the first beach vacation that you go on when your kids are big enough that you're like, "Oh, I actually sat on the beach all day. I didn't have to build sand castles and run into the water all the time." It's one of those moments where you're like, "Did I relax?" It was one of those where I was like, "Do I have some time and some brain power to think about this? And what do I want this next phase to be?" Because I certainly don't want to live in the dark hole that we were living in.
And so yeah, I think I did dream this up. And then now getting to talk to so many incredible women who are doing so many incredible things inspires me every time now to dream about what's next and to dream about what I want for myself and my kids and my family and my life. And I don't know, I'm also about to turn 50, and so I think it's also a moment of reflection and being like, "Okay, well, this might be the halfway point. We might've already surpassed the halfway point. What do I want this next chapter to feel like?" And I'm ready for it to feel different. Yeah, I do dream now, which is good.
Sarah Gaboury: That's really good. I've heard so many women talking about the 40s and 50s really being a really good time, actually, of getting into that phase and a different chapter of knowing yourself, knowing what you want, having a certain confidence, and for some people having their kids being a little bit older. I think I've heard from a lot of women that they really love being in their late 40s and 50s.
Johanna Almstea...: Totally. I'm enjoying it. And I think it's a combination of I feel... What is the word? Unfuckable with. Nobody can with me now. I feel like I have gone through so much-
Sarah Gaboury: Don't be unfuckable.
Johanna Almstea...: Unfuckable with. I don't know how to say it, but-
Sarah Gaboury: Important description. Yes, yes. No, I got it, I got it.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes. You can't fuck with me.
Sarah Gaboury: Yes. Exactly. I got it.
Johanna Almstea...: I feel like I'm at that point where in my life where I'm like, "I understand myself. I understand the world. I understand human behavior in a way that I'm not easily rattled anymore," and that makes life just a lot more enjoyable. And you give less fucks about things as your hormones shift. I was like, "One great benefit of perimenopause is that you give zero fucks after all is said and done." I think that that combination and then just having this confidence and having this fortitude that I've gotten through a bunch of stuff and I know that I can get through anything, that makes life really nice and pleasant and enjoyable in a way that it wasn't for the last 10 years. You know?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. Yep.
Johanna Almstea...: You said yes to Korea. Is there anything that you have said no to that you wish you had said yes to?
Sarah Gaboury: I don't think so. Nothing really comes to mind besides if I think back on years of not doing enough. Matt and I really just stopped doing things together for a long time by ourselves. We just really don't. We're trying to get better about that again. A chronic problem of not actually... It's easier a little bit when it's like there's this job that's staring you in the face. But it's the little cumulative ways of not taking time.
I think the pandemic was a really big time for me where I realized what burnout was; I think for a lot of people hitting that place in the pandemic. And so that was a new era of I have to walk every day. I have to find ways to meditate or ground myself, learning that. Because there was ways in which I said no to my own self-care for too long, and I really need to be done with that. And I can feel it now. Now when I start to tip into that, "What are you doing? What are you doing, sister?" You're like, "This is not good." I can feel it. And I'm like, "Okay, I got to get back on the horse here."
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I'm still working on that. I'm really good at a lot of other things; I'm not still great at the self-care thing.
Sarah Gaboury: If I didn't have therapy where she's just like, "What are you doing to... What's going on with..." I don't know why I don't meditate every day, because when I... I had a phase where I did it for a year and a half straight, and it was amazing the difference that it made in my life, truly. And I did TM meditation, which that was a big part of that.
Johanna Almstea...: Me too.
Sarah Gaboury: I have such resistance to it, and it's so bizarre because I know how much better life is when I do it.
Johanna Almstea...: I know. [inaudible 00:42:18].
Sarah Gaboury: And I thought, well, I'm going to go to Korea and I'm going to do it there, but I didn't. I didn't do it in Korea. I thought I would for sure because I realized the other things really are excuses. You know?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Sarah Gaboury: It's just excuses. It's like I can still prioritize exercise and stuff. And I did that in Korea too. That's one of my big goals; I really want to come back into my meditation practice because I love it, and I don't know why it's so hard for me to prioritize it.
Johanna Almstea...: I do. I feel like we've been conditioned to put our needs last for a really long time, so it's not a big mystery.
Sarah Gaboury: That's true.
Johanna Almstea...: You know?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Johanna Almstea...: And I think that culturally, like you just said, it's easy for you to prioritize work, I feel the same way. Not easy for me, it's easier for me to say, "Mommy needs to go to work right now, so you guys are going to be with babysitter. And this is important work I have to do." It's not easy for me to say, "Mommy needs to go to a yoga class, and that's why you're going to be with a babysitter." I have a very hard time doing that. And I think for generations, we, women in general have been completely conditioned to neglect our self-care. Big mystery to me.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. But also, I think that that's a part of it, but I also think part of it for me is a discomfort with slowing down and being in fight or flight, especially coming out of our nightmare construction project, which I know you can speak to, probably. I don't know. Hopefully yours is going better than mine went. It's like when you're so used to feeling, like you said, the waiting for the other shoe to drop. I think when you feel like the tiger's about to jump out of the bush all the time, for me, when I slow down, I think there's that part of my nervous system that still thinks if I slow down, the tiger's going to get me. You know what I mean?
Johanna Almstea...: Totally, totally.
Sarah Gaboury: I think it's relearning that again, to be like, "You're okay." When I do sit, because I'll get it in sporadically, it doesn't feel good. I'm sitting there being like, "Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck." You know what I mean? I'll get anxious sitting in my meditation. And I know that if I kept doing that, that that would pass. But I think that's a big part of it, that slowing down feels bad, it feels wrong. And I have to not let that be like, "Oh, this is my gut telling me I need to keep doing these things." It's like, no, this is a jacked up nervous system. You know?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. Yeah. I can really relate to that. I am very uncomfortable slowing down. I don't like it. I think sometimes also I think if I slow down, I'm never going to get back up. That's the other part of it is not only am I afraid the tiger's going to jump out of the woods, but I might just lay down and die here probably as a result of a jacked up nervous system. I'm exhausted all the time, and I'm going and going and going, and so I think there's part of me that's like, "If you stop, all of this is going to go away, or if you slow down, you're not going to be able to get this momentum back up, or you're not going to be able to get through the rest of the day," or whatever. That's not a great way to live.
Sarah Gaboury: No, it's really not. I really don't want to pass that on to my kids, I really, really, really don't because it's so fucked. It's such a capitalism way to live, and I don't want to do that. I feel like I don't even always know what my own way to play is, that sense of losing track of time. And I'm finding it more and more. I picked up one of my kids' ukuleles, and I was like, "I'm just going to fricking teach myself a song on the ukulele right now." And actually, my cats have been me becoming a cat lady, which is totally weird, as we both know, has been so good for me.
Johanna Almstea...: For those of you listening, she was very anti-animal before this, and now she has cats. Of all the animals, she has two cats.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, because they chose us because they were born under our house. And my cats are so good for me. I love my cats so much. And I'll find myself laying on the floor with a cat of just petting my cat and being like, "This is so great." It's making me soft and mushy and snuggly.
If I could dream about something, I want to dream about really cultivating more; prioritizing that time, the play, the wonder time, the unscheduled, unstructured, non-productive time. I know that that would be a game changer for me. I feel like I'm still trying to put out fires all the time because I am. There's so much going on.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. It's funny because I think about... After we went through the dark days of night, I became militant about joy and about seeking joy in our life.
Sarah Gaboury: That sounds like you.
Johanna Almstea...: But it was in this really manic-
Sarah Gaboury: That's so Johanna, militant joy secret.
Johanna Almstea...: "We are going to have a good time whether we like it or not." And sometimes it was like the pendulum had to swing in the other direction to just... It was like my husband had suffered so many losses and so much stress, and I was just like, "We are going to focus on joy now."
And it's funny because it still was with this very gripping, manic energy as opposed to a softness. And now, it's funny, my dogs do what your cats do for you. My dogs bring me such delight on a regular basis. And I'm like, "Oh my God, look at this." It doesn't have to be this charging ahead with joy, it could just be the simple moments of this really ridiculously cute and terribly behaved puppy that makes my heart swell. I think I'm trying really hard to layer in or open myself up to moments of delight that feel easy and soft.
Sarah Gaboury: Yes.
Johanna Almstea...: What is something that you once believed about yourself that you have since outgrown?
Sarah Gaboury: This still creeps in, but I think there was this belief that I was a bit of a disaster of just feeling like I can't.
Johanna Almstea...: Kind of a mess.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, like everything's a bit of a mess. I've really, I think, grown into the comfort of... There's a lot that I have done and there's a lot that I know. And Matt's really good about that for me. Sometimes he's like, "Do you ever just step back and look at what you did? Look what you've done with your whole business." And-
Johanna Almstea...: He's such a love.
Sarah Gaboury: I know he is. And having that reflected back and being like, yeah, it is still really hard for me to do that. I think I don't want to speak for everybody. I think it can be hard to do that. But I think for the most part, I can really see. I have these really incredible kids. People meet them, and they're like, "These kids are amazing." I feel really proud of our family and proud of what I've done. And I think just this confidence in who I am, comfort with who I am, that's the thing that comes to mind.
Johanna Almstea...: I feel like I see that as your friend having known you at a time when we were a mess.
Sarah Gaboury: Yes, there was-
Johanna Almstea...: And we were making some bad decisions in our lives and-
Sarah Gaboury: Oh, my God.
Johanna Almstea...: ... that was a time, that was not who you are. We were making some really interesting choices in our lives and were all over the place and thought that we were a mess. And we were, but that that doesn't have to be a permanent state.
Sarah Gaboury: But there were choices. It wasn't who we are. Yeah, there was a real season of, for me, a long time. I made a lot of bad choices in high school, made a lot of bad choices in my 20s. But it is true that a lot of that has made me who I am and being able to not be harsh on myself for things. That's also, I think... I'm so grateful to my therapist. I finally found a therapist I really like, is just the self-compassion, the piece of self-compassion, which I also feel like is so big. This comes up in acting a lot too for actors. They tend to soften in their performance and get grounded and truthful when they stop beating themselves up. And I'm much better at not doing that now. I'll catch it. I'll have the moment of, oh, you're going down a dark hole here. What is that? What's that story you're telling yourself right now? That's not true. You know?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, me too. Yeah.
Sarah Gaboury: I'm so grateful for that ability to see when that's creeping in when I'm starting to just be making a story up that's not true.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I see it especially with my children. If I see my kids being hard on themselves, it kills me. It breaks my heart. I'm like, "Stop. Just stop. Don't do that to my child." I always say that to them. I'm like, "You're not allowed to be mean to my child." And they're like, mommy."
Sarah Gaboury: Totally.
Johanna Almstea...: But you just think about that self-flagellation, and you're like, "God, just stop. Don't do it. It's not-"
Sarah Gaboury: Yes. When they see you do that, they think they're supposed to do that, and so I've been very careful about... I had to talk to my mom at some point too where I was like, "We have to really be careful with how we talk about ourselves in front of the kids and what we're modeling for them."
Johanna Almstea...: Totally. It's like this-
Sarah Gaboury: I don't want them to do that.
Johanna Almstea...: They always say, "Model that you can make mistakes because you can get past them," or whatever. And so it's like this fine line of being like, "Oh, mommy really screwed up, but also mommy's okay after she screwed up," or whatever. I don't know. I think it's such a hard balance to show them that you're not perfect and that you do mess things up and it's okay to mess things up, and there's no need for them to be so hard on themselves because you can mess things up too, or whatever. But then also just be kind to yourself about it.
Sarah Gaboury: Luckily, when I do mess up, if I mess up with them, one of my kids will still say to me, "Remember that time you kicked the bunk bed?" Because I was so mad. There was something that happened. I got so mad, and I was like, "Ah," and I kicked the bunk bed and I said something. And it was such a outburst of thing. I was like-
Johanna Almstea...: Shocking to them.
Sarah Gaboury: I had to leave and come back and be like, "I lost my temper." But they'll still be like, "Remember that time mom kicked the bunk bed?" We have to just make a joke out of it because I am going to lose my shit sometimes. It's a lot, this life.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it's a lot. Coming from a rough morning around here, so I get it. There was definitely some screaming that happened on the way to school today.
Sarah Gaboury: Screaming.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it's a lot. But I also think that's the other thing, once I understood the concept of repair and this idea that I'm going to lose my shit, and that's okay. And I also think it's important for them to know that you can't just push and push and push and then not have someone lose their shit eventually. But then I think this idea of repair was a huge light bulb for me was I can go back and talk about it afterwards. Whereas I feel like the way I grew up was nobody talked about anything, then someone exploded, and then nobody talked about anything ever again either.
Sarah Gaboury: And then you never talk about again. It never happened.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. I feel like now it's like, "Okay, I lost my shit, and this is why." I don't fully agree with the whole you should never make them feel like it was their fault. Sometimes it is their fault, and I'm okay with... I'm like, "I asked you guys to get dressed seven times and you didn't get dressed, and so I lost my shit," whatever, "but I should not have done this, this, and this. And I'm sorry that I did this and this," whatever. But that has been very freeing for me. And I feel like there's moments where I'm like, "Oh, look at me breaking a generational pattern of weirdness." I'm just like, "I'm going to apologize." I'm going to circle back. I'm going to be like, "You know what? That was a moment. I should not have lost my temper in that way, and this is how we're going to fix it." And that feels good.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, it's so good. And the way we teach that of that they can mess up and then repair. And I think that they do that. I watch. Especially my youngest is really good at that. She does, she has a fricking temper, just so fire, fast. She has such a soft love, and then she's just like... She loses it. And then you give her 20 minutes and on her own she'll go to her sister and be like, "I'm really sorry. I just lost my temper. I just get so mad. And I think I'm a little bit tired right now." And I'm just like, "Okay. You're done."
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing. That's amazing.
Sarah Gaboury: Check. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: You're good. You're good for life. You're good.
Sarah Gaboury: So self-aware.
Johanna Almstea...: So cool. That's really cool. Okay, it is now time for our lightning round of silly questions. Do not overthink this. You're going to be so good at this. I think I know some of the answers, but I'm really excited to hear what you say. Okay, what is your ultimate comfort food?
Sarah Gaboury: Oh my God, right now it's popcorn.
Johanna Almstea...: I Feel like popcorn's always been your comfort food.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, it's true, but I was going to go to some other-
Johanna Almstea...: Popcorn.
Sarah Gaboury: But yeah, I would say popcorn.
Johanna Almstea...: What did you want to be when you grew up, when you were a kid?
Sarah Gaboury: An actor.
Johanna Almstea...: What is something you are really good at?
Sarah Gaboury: Empathy.
Johanna Almstea...: You are. What is something you are really bad at?
Sarah Gaboury: Math.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. That's a common theme on this podcast. I surround myself with people who suck at math. What is your favorite word?
Sarah Gaboury: My favorite word?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Sarah Gaboury: Connection.
Johanna Almstea...: Ooh, I like that one. What is your least favorite word?
Sarah Gaboury: Cilantro.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay, that's funny because my next question is what's your least favorite food?
Sarah Gaboury: Cilantro. I can say lamb and goat cheese as well, just to mix it up.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. I thought it was going to be cilantro, but it's all it. Okay.
Sarah Gaboury: Yes.
Johanna Almstea...: Have we talked about the goat cheese? All, but you like olives, right? Do you eat olives?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, I love olives. You know I love a charcuterie.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. I was thinking, because I feel like I met several people who hated cilantro and hated goat cheese and also hated olives, and I was wondering if you were one of those people, but I thought you liked olives. Okay. This is really important information we're discussing.
Sarah Gaboury: It is. Olives are very important to me.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay. What's the best piece of advice you have ever received?
Sarah Gaboury: The best piece of advice I have ever received. I don't know. I don't know.
Johanna Almstea...: We can come back to it. We can come back to it.
Sarah Gaboury: That's a really hard one. Stumping me. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: We'll come back to it. If your personality were a flavor, what would it be?
Sarah Gaboury: Tahini.
Johanna Almstea...: I like it.
Sarah Gaboury: Little tahini.
Johanna Almstea...: What was your first paid job?
Sarah Gaboury: It was a production of South Pacific, the mountain play in Marin when I was 18. I was in the ensemble of a big production of South Pacific.
Johanna Almstea...: And you got paid?
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. It was a big production.
Johanna Almstea...: That's so cool. That's so cool. Okay, last supper. You are leaving this body and this earth tomorrow. What are you eating tonight?
Sarah Gaboury: My ex-boyfriend, who is Italian, as you know, his grandmother used to make this... It was called Seppie in umido. And it was like this long cooked seppie squid that was cooked for two days in this tomato-based sauce. And it would fall apart onto toast. You would take the toast, and then you'd have the little garlic [inaudible 00:57:54] on top, and then the seppie dish would go on top of the bread. Oh my God.
Johanna Almstea...: You would just eat that before you die? Just love that.
Sarah Gaboury: That dish-
Johanna Almstea...: That's the one.
Sarah Gaboury: ... was on the... I don't know if I ever told you that. Maybe I told you this at the time. My ex-boyfriend, who you know, their whole family where I lived in Italy was on an episode of the Anthony Bourdain show. They cooked that, I think it was that dish on the show. His grandmother cooked it the way I had it, and Anthony Bourdain was like, "This is the way I want to eat every day. This is my favorite food. "
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God, that is so cool. I did not know that story. That's amazing.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing.
Johanna Almstea...: Anthony Bourdain approved.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah. With a glass of red wine.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, yeah. What red wine would you have?
Sarah Gaboury: Either a Brunello or a Montepulciano d'Abruzzo, something like a nice red that would go with it really well, but a tiny bit chilled. I hate when a red wine is warm. Yuck.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. Have you ever had a moment in your life when you've had to eat your words?
Sarah Gaboury: Oh, I'm sure. I think it's with my kids is what I think about of just the shit that I've said that I wish I didn't.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, I feel like it's a daily thing for me. Okay, if you had to eat one food for the rest of your life all day, every day... Don't worry about nutritional sustenance; it'll you and keep you alive. What would you eat?
Sarah Gaboury: I feel like I'm going to this dish I used to eat in Italy, which was the bistecca alla fiorentina, the really thick steak. Alla fiorentina, that's seared and then sliced. And there was big chunks of wild arugula with lemon and olive oil and Parmesan and then roasted potatoes. And then you make the combo bite of the arugula, the potato, and the steak. That with a glass of red wine is basically heaven.
Johanna Almstea...: Where's your happy place?
Sarah Gaboury: Oh, my happy place is at a river lying on a hot rock with my feet in a cold river eating salt and vinegar potato chips and drinking a beer in the middle of the summer.
Johanna Almstea...: That sounds dreamy.
Sarah Gaboury: I know it when it happens. We go to the hot springs, and I'm like, "It's happening. It's happening. I'm doing the thing. I'm being happy in my happy place." I just want it to go on forever.
Johanna Almstea...: That's the best.
Sarah Gaboury: I know exactly what that place is.
Johanna Almstea...: That's the best. What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world?
Sarah Gaboury: It'll be a really cute pair of sneakers and jeans with a cute dressier blousier thing, good jewelry and a little bit of nice oil on my face with some blush.
Johanna Almstea...: Some blush. I like it.
Sarah Gaboury: Just a little bit of a-
Johanna Almstea...: Blush makes me feel powerful.
Sarah Gaboury: Put on my blush stick. It is. A little bit of blush goes a long way for me.
Johanna Almstea...: What is your go-to coping mechanism on a bad day?
Sarah Gaboury: Four, seven, eight breath.
Johanna Almstea...: What is that?
Sarah Gaboury: In four, hold seven, out eight. This is because I'm doing this with one of my kids. And her therapy twice a week, and this is one of her big coping skills. And it's one that we use all the time. And it really helps. In four, hold seven, out eight.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. I'm going to try it. I do sometimes the box breath.
Sarah Gaboury: Oh, box breath. Yeah. I like this one better. Box breath makes me feel like I don't have enough air for some reason. I always feel like it's too much air and it's not enough air, and I'm always thinking about the air when I do box breath, which maybe that's part of the point. But I feel more stressed out, and I don't know why. Box breath, But four, even, eight works really well for me.
The other one I use a lot is... And I can send you the link to this podcast episode, it's Radical Acceptance. And they talk about the RAIN acronym. In a heightened state, I'll be like, "Okay, I have to recognize, R, where I am." A, allow; allow myself to be where I am. I, I might want to investigate a little bit. What is this? What's coming up for me? Doing a little bit of nudging. And then the N is nurture, nurturing myself. And I love that one. I use it all..." That's Tara Brock. Tara Brock. There's a whole beautiful podcast episode about it that is like, I share it all the time.
Johanna Almstea...: Will you send it to me?
Sarah Gaboury: I love it so much. It's one of my go-tos. That's a big one.
Johanna Almstea...: That's a really good one because it's also easy to remember.
Sarah Gaboury: Yep, RAIN.
Johanna Almstea...: Wait, what does it stand for again? Recognize.
Sarah Gaboury: Recognize. Allow.
Johanna Almstea...: Allow.
Sarah Gaboury: Investigate.
Johanna Almstea...: Investigate. Nurture.
Sarah Gaboury: Nurture.
Johanna Almstea...: I love that. What is one thing you know for sure right now in this very moment?
Sarah Gaboury: That I'm hungry.
Johanna Almstea...: I love it. That is the best. You are on a podcast called Eat My Words.
Sarah Gaboury: So perfect.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay, please tell people where they can find you, Instagram and all the things.
Sarah Gaboury: Yeah, my Instagram is where I'm the most active. That's @realactorslab.com, R-E-A-L Actor's Lab. And my website is realactorslab.com. And I have a blog on there with mostly blogs I wrote a while ago that get recycled in my evergreen letter with tips and things. But I really connect with people a lot on Instagram. A lot of people find me on Instagram, so that's a great way to connect.
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing. I was just thinking I think I might have to have you come back and talk about... Because I always say everybody in the world should go take an acting class because I feel like it's just one of the best set of tools for life. And I think we should do a podcast episode about acting for non-actors. What would be the kinds of things that you teach people? Wouldn't that be fun?
Sarah Gaboury: It would be so fun. I actually thought of... When I was trying to figure out how I wanted to launch my business when I was first really launching it and making this shift, because I originally started working with just teenagers, and then I made the shift. And there was a phase where I was like, "I just want to teach an acting for non-actors workshop." Because I think the thing that really lights me up is less about celebrity and less about whose credits are what and who's famous, it's like the ahas are what really light me up and the, oh my God. The things that come up in an acting class are the things that are holding you back in your life.
Johanna Almstea...: Totally. I think we should do it.
Sarah Gaboury: Let's do it. That sounds really fun.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay, my dear. Well, thank you so, so, so, so much for waking up so early and getting in your little booth to talk to me.
Sarah Gaboury: Oh my God, it's so fun.
Johanna Almstea...: I'm so grateful to have had you on. I'm so grateful for this conversation.
Sarah Gaboury: So Fun.
Johanna Almstea...: I'm so happy that we got this long to talk because we never get this long to talk ever.
Sarah Gaboury: I know. Can I be on your podcast every week so we can just keep talking and hanging out?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I think that's a great idea. You'll just be my weekly guest. We'll just have a weekly episode with you.
Sarah Gaboury: It's just us.
Johanna Almstea...: All right. I adore you. Thank you so much.
Oh my gosh, that was so much fun. I could have kept talking forever and ever and ever. Thank you so much for joining us. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did.
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This podcast has been created and directed by me, Johanna Almstead. Our producer is Sophy Drouin. Our audio editor is Isabel Robertson, and our brand manager is Mila Boushna.