Eat My Words

Johanna Almstead:
Hi, everyone. Just a little note about today's episode. We are going to talk about loss today, albeit a pretty revolutionary way of dealing with it, but if that isn't something you want to hear today, please go ahead and skip it. We'll catch you on the next one. So if you've listened to our other episodes, you know that the inspiration behind this podcast is the amazing dinners I've shared with spectacular women in my life, and the fact that some of the most transformative conversations I've ever had have happened over food and wine with my friends. So as I'm preparing for each interview, I like to think about what I would feed them if they were coming to my dinner table. For my guest today, I think I would start with a glass of sparkling wine, like a champagne or a Prosecco. It kind of suits her personality.
She's joyful and effervescent and celebratory. To go along with that, I think I'd do a little chilled seafood, like a shrimp cocktail and maybe some lump crab meat. I'd serve it with just some really crunchy, good breadsticks. And then for the main course, I think I'd serve one of my favorite dishes to make, a lovely baked cod with this really good butter, lemon, and caper sauce. It's a crowd pleaser. Even people who don't like fish like it. I'd serve that with some rice pilaf and maybe some sauteed broccolini. For music, I think I might do a little classic jazz piano, maybe some Herby Hancock. I'd make sure the lighting feels warm and inviting. My guest today has become a real inspiration to me and I can't wait to talk with her. Let's dig in. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Eat My Words. I am so honored to have today's guest on, because she's someone, and she might be surprised to hear this, that I think about probably on a daily basis, saying to myself, "What would Kate do?"
Our goal for this podcast is to have badass women sharing their stories, and my guest today may be the badassiest of them all so far. She is a motivational speaker, author, nonprofit founder, and brand strategist. She is a wife, a mother, a sister, a friend, and one of the most enthusiastic exercisers I have ever seen. Just watch her Instagram videos. Her mission is to inspire others to live with joy, connect powerfully, and lead with purpose. Her TEDx talk, which we're going to talk about, How to Find Your Purpose, will be released this summer. And her new book on Navigating Grief and Challenge with Love, Connection and Positivity will be published in June 2026. We have to talk about that too. She is smart, she is kind, she is determined, she is a force, and she has become one of my own personal heroes. Kate Doerge, welcome to Eat My Words.
Kate Doerge:
Gosh, that's the most beautiful introduction. I need to take you everywhere with me.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm going to be your hype squad. I'll just-
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
... here she goes. These are all the amazing things she does.
Kate Doerge:
Thank you. That is such an, well, first of all, it's such an honor to be here, and as a very longtime friend of mine, I am so grateful to be here with you and so proud of what you're doing, and what a gift to be able to share other stories to hopefully help other people.
Johanna Almstead:
That's the goal. That's what we're trying to do here.
Kate Doerge:
Oh, well, I'm honored and I'm thrilled, and I'm so excited to be here.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my gosh. Well, thank you and I am honored and thrilled to have you here. We have so much to cover here today, because you are doing so much. So I want to dive in right away. Is that okay?
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, let's go.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So I want to give our listeners a little background. I like to tell people how we know each other. So you and I met when you were a partner at Paul Wilmot Agency, which is a PR agency, and I became your client. I was heading up global comms at Kate Spade at the time, and we hired you and your team to help us build and execute a PR strategy. And you would come to 9:00 AM meetings with wet hair, because you had just done a two-hour kickboxing session and I was barely functioning, while sucking down my first coffee of the day. And I always was very impressed, and it also made me feel like a big slacker. So [inaudible 00:04:46].
Kate Doerge:
Hopefully not.
Johanna Almstead:
But we've had a lovely and very productive working relationship for a long time. And then we both moved on to other companies and projects. And thankfully for Instagram, we could keep up with each other's lives a bit. I always thought of you as a super professional, capable, loving, working mom, who was one of the good eggs in our industry, which we had some bad eggs in that industry too. So on the surface, life looked pretty beautiful and easy for you, for those of us who were watching from Instagram. Three beautiful children, handsome husband, big, lovely, extended family, fun vacations, great career, all the things right?
But actually, there was some pretty difficult stuff going on in your real life, and those of us who were following on Instagram didn't really know about it. So I want to get right into it if it's okay. I'll never forget the morning of November 10th, 2022. It was my 10-year anniversary actually, my wedding anniversary. My husband and I were away in Napa for our anniversary, and I was scrolling through Instagram and having a lazy morning with no kids, and nobody bothering me. And I came across your post that started with, "There is another angel in heaven today. Our beautiful Penny lived a full life full of bravery, kindness, joy, and was a true model for us all."
Your daughter Penny had passed away at the tender age of 16. I felt like someone had kicked me in the guts, and I dropped my phone and I sobbed. Now, I didn't know Penny. I had never met her. I hadn't seen you in years. I didn't even know she was sick. But as a mother of two daughters, I couldn't even begin to comprehend what that would feel like to lose one. And I wailed on your behalf. I had this kind of outsized reaction and I didn't know how you could bear it. Very quickly, it seemed to me as an outsider that you and your family turned this devastating moment into something joyful and with meaning. I would love to talk to you first, I want you to tell me a little bit about your beautiful Penny and her journey up until that point, and then about that time and those days, and how that all worked for you, if that's okay?
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, of course. I mean, first of all, I want to go back to how I always tell my kids, you never burn a bridge in your career or life, because you never know where people are going to end up. And I have so much gratitude for my background and for my career, and everything I've done, because it really does lend to where we are now and what's transpired since Penny passed. But I guess I'll start at the beginning, which is from the outside. As you said, I had dated my husband for six years before we got married. And on the eve of our wedding, my father was the one who pulled us aside and was like, "You've led this big beautiful life, very charmed." I was in fashion PR, traveling the world-
Johanna Almstead:
So glamorous.
Kate Doerge:
... glamour, beauty. It sounds so perfect. And my husband was in finance and my father really took us aside and he was like, "Listen, you've led this beautiful life. You have wonderful, beautiful family and friends. He's very spiritual as a Catholic, and he said, "But you will be challenged and it's up to you how you decide the cards you're dealt in life, how are you going to play them?"
And so, at that moment, Chad and I were like, "You're sort of crushing our vibe," as we're going into-
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, yeah, let's with the glamour, it's way nicer.
Kate Doerge:
Exactly. We're like, "We're about to go into our long wedding weekend."
But I always talk about that moment, because it really was the defining moment, certainly in my life and in Chad's as we became partners in life together. And so, when Penny, who is our middle child, we have Henry, who's now 21, and Penny, who were two years apart when Penny was four months old and rolled off our bed, living in New York City. And it's funny, I think about that moment so clearly. I remember I was getting ready in the bathroom, probably throwing on some fancy outfit to race out the door to a fashion show or something glamorous I had.
But there was little Penny at four months who rolled off our bed and had fractured her leg, her tibia bone-
Johanna Almstead:
Which is scary enough as it is, by the way.
Kate Doerge:
Which is scary enough as it is, but interestingly enough, because I look back on that moment, she didn't even cry when she rolled off her bed. I heard this thud, raced out. She was in the middle and had rolled all the way to the side, raced out, scooped her up, and her leg was hot, but she wasn't screaming in pain. So it wasn't until later in the day that I got the phone call from our babysitter, who said, "She's really holding her leg up like a wounded bird."
So long story short, we raced up to hospital for special surgery. The orthopedic surgeon, who's the head of orthopedics at the time, Dr. Roger Widmann, took one look and he was like, "Okay, she needs an x-ray."
X-rays came back, not only was it a fracture, but it was something called congenial pseudarthrosis. One out of 300,000 kids have this, which is the bowing of the tibia bone. And he said, "Because this is so rare, I believe it's under this umbrella of what we call neurofibromatosis or NF."
And of course Chad and I looked at each other and we were like, "What? Congenial what? Neuro what?"
And he said, "But don't Google it. Don't go down the rabbit hole. Let's just focus on her leg, because she's going to need, this is going to be a long journey for us. She's going to need multiple surgeries to fuse the bone. She'll wear a protective brace for the rest of her life, or at least until the bone is fully grown and healed."
So with that, I go back to my dad's advice, which is, "How are you going to play the cards you're dealt in life?"
And so, we were like, "All right, let's go. Let's bedazzle her brace she wears on her leg and make sure Penny lives a big, beautiful life, wears high heels, goes skating, does all the things that these beautiful young girls do through her adolescence, into her teens."
Regarding the NF, we were never going down that rabbit hole. We did get Penny tested, genetically, came back positive. Neurofibromatosis is the growth of tumors anywhere along the nerve pathways. No condition looks the same. One out of 2000 kids have it. So while it's considered a rare disease, because there's no cure, it's very under known and underfunded, because it doesn't look like breast cancer or prostate cancer, any of those conditions that are easily defined. So not because of that reason, but we just were like, we're so focused on Penny's leg. And she did have seven leg surgeries over the course of her 16 years. So we just, that's all we were focused on. But again, it was going back to this idea of play the cards you're dealt in life and we made them really beautiful. So it wasn't-
Johanna Almstead:
And can I ask-
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, sorry, just interrupt.
Johanna Almstead:
... did you and Chad ever have a conversation about that or was it just sort of both of your instincts to just be like, "We're just going all in on the positivity and we are just going to make this life big?" Or did you sit down and make a decision as a family?
Kate Doerge:
I think that, no, I think it was, I go back to my upbringing. My mom was the biggest, brightest, most beautiful light. She led a beautiful life. And I talk about my dad was a former Marine and a devout Catholic. And so, I grew up with this physical and mental strength from my dad, and this beauty and positivity, and joy of my mom, which really I think established my own upbringing and foundation. So when my dad had given us this advice of how are you going to play the cards you're dealt in life, I always viewed things from glass half full. So through Penny's life, I think that it was certainly Chad and I as partners, but maybe I led the way to say, "This is how we're going to do it. Let's go." And Chad is such a grounding force for me. So when I'm spiraling the air and I'm like, "Let's go."
Chad's like, "Okay, let's go, but let's do it this way."
And so, we were very much partners in this and we sort of set the tone even for our friends, where we were like, "Penny will not be defined by the brace she wears on her leg and she will not be defined by this diagnosis that we had received."
And so, we really forged ahead and she led this beautiful life. In the fall of 2020, Penny, it was during COVID and kids were on screen, virtual school, and Penny had a little bit of this tick in her eye, wandering on. We saw it and we're like, "You know what? We should probably get that checked out at the ophthalmologist." And Penny had had various doctors who were tracking her, but again, it was just normal checkups.
Johanna Almstead:
So she really hadn't had any other manifestations of this disorder?
Kate Doerge:
She really hasn't. Other than a few café au lait spots, which are under the umbrella of NF. But even those, we were like, "Oh, beauty marks. You're beautiful, Penny."
And she thought of them as beautiful too, and it was never a thing. And so, in the fall of 2020, she went and had a doctor's appointment. And it's so funny looking back on it in hindsight, because the eye doctor was like, "I've seen this with other kids having sort of a wandering eye, weakness of the eye muscles, because they're so focused on the screen."
I was like, "But I think we should get an MRI."
And he didn't raise a red flag to us, but he was like, "Let my office schedule."
So we had an appointment the next day. I was like, "Oh, that's amazing. We get in that quickly."
And I was in the waiting room and they came out after two hours, and they said, "You know what? We need some more time to review this. Once you go home, we'll call you."
I drove from the city back out to Long Island and I pulled into the driveway, and I got the phone call from the MRI team. And after reviewing, they said, "You got to turn around and come back to the emergency room. She's got a tumor the size of a lemon."
And we were like-
Johanna Almstead:
And that was in her brain.
Kate Doerge:
And that was her brain tumor. And that was the first, and it was, I'll never forget, because I walked into the house and Penny was there, and Penny was like, "What's going on?"
And I said, "They found something, but you know what? Dad's going to turn the car around. We're going to go in, we're going to get it out and it's all good. Let's go."
And so, Chad took her back into the city. I stayed with our son, and I love this story, because this is so I think our family, where by the time I got back into the city, Penny was going into surgery and I asked Chad, I was like, "Okay, so we're good. How's the surgeon?"
Because it'd been in the emergency room. He's like, "Oh my God, he is amazing. He's a total rock star. He's got this."
I was like, "Well, what is his name?"
He's like, "I forget, but he's amazing."
And I was-
Johanna Almstead:
A hundred percent confident that he's amazing.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, he's like, "He's got this."
And I was like, "Wait, what? He's about to do brain surgery on our 14-year-old daughter. You don't even know his name."
He's like, "Don't worry, have faith."
And I think that speaks so much to us as partners and as a family, because we talked so much about faith over fear, and that was how we lived life with Penny. And over the course of the next 24 months, what happened was that we were just aggressively fighting this at that time benign brain tumor, because it really wasn't until that following spring, that pathology report came back and it had metastasized and morphed into malignant. And then, that year later we got the diagnosis after it appeared for the third time, because we had seven brain surgeries overall, and chemo and radiation.
But when I tell you, we just kept going and moving forward, and none of this defined how Penny lived her life. I mean, she went away to boarding school that following a year after the first brain tumor, she was at Palmfret school. I would go up and give her the chemo and stay for two nights, and then Chad would come for two nights. And we just made it happen, because it was so important for us that she lived a beautiful life and she did. And no one even knew what she was going through. And everyone loved her. Penny was just the brightest light. And so, in the fall of 2022, that September, October as Penny passed, November 10th, we had brought her home. She was at a local day school with her friends here, Portledge, and they loved her. She loved the school, but it was that October she went dressed as an angel for Halloween, her last Halloween, and 11 days later she passed away. But it was-
Johanna Almstead:
And did you have any sense that that was going to happen that quickly?
Kate Doerge:
No, because we just were moving along and keeping things going. And Halloween, again, never forget this, Penny was on crutches, because she had had a stress fracture to her tibia bone. So we were still handling her wearing a brace and doing all of that. And she was such a warrior. I mean, it was unbelievable. There she was dressed as a beautiful angel on crutches, going trick-or-treating with her best girlfriends. And the next day she really wasn't feeling well.
And so, I was racing to a business trip. Chad took her into Memorial Sloan Kettering, where she was receiving her treatments, and we did an MRI and he called me when I was on the plane about to take off for this trip. And he was like, "It's spread."
It's at this point, the tumor that Penny had, just as a sidebar, glioblastomas under the neurofibromatosis umbrella, have a sheath that protects them. That actually, funny enough, maintains the tumor, so that we could keep going in and just plucking it out. So every time it reappeared, it was a meatball that Penny's brain surgeon was like, "Okay, Penn, it's back, but I can get in there and get it out."
And we'd be like, "Great, okay."
Johanna Almstead:
Because as opposed to a different tumor, a different tumor would be weird and amorphous-
Kate Doerge:
Like lasagna.
Johanna Almstead:
... different shape. Right.
Kate Doerge:
Just like too tentacly, spread out. But with Penny's glioblastoma, the tumor kept reappearing in the same place. So it was this meatball that we could just pluck out. And he laughs to this day, her surgeon, because he'd be like, "Oh my gosh, you Doerges."
It was always something. Penny would come in and be like, "Okay, this tumor's back, but I've got a really big 16th birthday party that I'm throwing."
And he'd be like, "Okay."
And she'd be like, "We're going river rafting in two weeks."
And he's like, "All right, Penn, I'll schedule it and then you'll go."
And, "I've got to go back to school," or, "I'm going to Florida."
None of it defined who she was or what we did. It was like we worked everything around her schedule and her big beautiful life. And so, in this last instance when it had spread, we made a choice again, back to this idea of how you're going to play your cards your dealt in life. And when we heard this was it, we decided, okay-
Johanna Almstead:
Told you then that it was probably-
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, they were like-
Johanna Almstead:
... fatal?
Kate Doerge:
"All right, well, we can keep her here and we'll do the chemo, and we can continue radiation."
But Chad and I looked at each other, I flew back from this trip and I went raced to the hospital, and I was like, "All right, let's call Henry in from the University of Denver," where Henry was a freshman then, "and call your parents from Florida, and get all of her girlfriends who are boarding schools, and let's just love her up. And let's get back to the house and fill it with music and light, and love, and joy, and let this be a rocket ship of love that she goes out on."
And it was so fascinating, because it's like a study in changing mindset and cultural norms, because when we made that choice to bring her home and fill the house with love, and light, and music, and when I say music, the only fight or argument that Chad and I had was over what music we were playing, because he's like a big Phish and Grateful Dead fan, and Goose fan. And I was like, all about '70s on seven. I was like, "I just want yacht rocks and '70s on seven."
And so, people would laugh, because we would constantly be changing the channel, but it was-
Johanna Almstead:
That would be a similar argument in my house, by the way.
Kate Doerge:
Would you be Goose?
Johanna Almstead:
My husband would be the Grateful Dead and I would be the opposite.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, yeah. But it's amazing because in November, that week of November, those 10 days, it was unusually warm and bright and beautiful. And so, doors were open and at any one time we had anywhere from 40 to 60 people in our house at all times. And people would walk in and I would hear someone coming in, and someone would be like, "Kate, so-and-so's here."
And I'd come down from Penny's room, where she was with all of her best girlfriends sitting on her bed, and our three dogs in the room, and they're playing music. And I'd run downstairs and to whoever walked in, I'd be like, "Hi, welcome. I'm so happy you're here. Come and see Penn."
And people were so shocked, they couldn't believe that this is the way we were rolling. And it was so important to us to have that love and that joy, and be able to have Penny feel that, and have our entire community feel that and really celebrate her. I mean, people would say they refer to our house at that time as a love cocoon, because it was just so infectious that people didn't want to leave. They came into the cocoon and they felt so much love, and so much joy. I thought it was really, really beautiful.
And so, when Penny passed on November 10th, we had about, I don't know, 40 people in the house, but the boys and Chad, and I, and her dogs were all with her. And it was this moment that we had recognizing all the love and joy, and support for Penny's beautiful bright light that we were like, "Okay, this is another choice. We're going to celebrate her life and not mourn her."
And I quickly was like, "No one's wearing black."
Johanna Almstead:
Let's get to the fashion. Let's really quickly get to the fashion of this all.
Kate Doerge:
It was so important for me to control the narrative from the start, because-
Johanna Almstead:
That's so true.
Kate Doerge:
... what do you do? A community who's never lost a 16-year-old, who never even knew that she was sick? It was like from the PR world, maybe it was my PR background, but it was like, how do you control the narrative? How do you set the tone for others to rise to the occasion and be there? And it was so important for me that I think, thank God for social media and Instagram, that's why I put that out. From the beginning, I didn't want to say we're devastated. We're in the deepest sorrow. We are quote-unquote grieving, because I want-
Johanna Almstead:
But were you? Can I ask, were you deep down, were there ever those days when you were curled up in a ball and sweatpants in your closet, just heaving and sobbing?
Kate Doerge:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
Or was it-
Kate Doerge:
Listen, was I devastated? Of course I was devastated. But I think this is why I am on such a crusade a mission now, because I recognize what a difference it made to lead with number one, connection and bringing people in, so we felt stronger together. Celebration, celebrating Penny's beautiful life and how fortunate we were to have her, which led to gratitude for this incredibly beautiful life and the legacy she left behind, which I'll get into. Acceptance of life is not the same without her physically here, but it's so beautiful, because sort of the fifth stage, and this is what I'll talk about with my book too, is that pain into purpose. What we have done from November 10th, 2022 to today, what we are doing now has been the most beautiful, incredible experience of my life, and movement and turning pain into purpose.
And yeah, it was devastating losing my 16-year-old, but I think I just again went back to this idea of am I going to sit curled up in a ball in a dark hole, when I have two beautiful boys who need me, and a husband and a community who are all looking to us in terms of how are we handling this? How are we playing the cards we're dealt in life? And so, I think I recognized pretty early on, I have an opportunity here to set the tone and to change the narrative, and to galvanize our community, and our friends and our families to do something.
Johanna Almstead:
It's so interesting to think about that conscious choice of changing the narrative. That is really major. Were you consciously like, "I'm going to change the narrative," or you were just doing what you were doing?
Kate Doerge:
I just was doing what I was doing. Again, having grown up with a mother who is such a positive, bright influence in my life, and my father who was mentally and physically strong, I think I just knew that I was now living my life's purpose. All of that, it felt real. And it felt like when I go back to thinking about my journey, my own career, the foundation that was laid ahead of where I was at November 10th, 2022, I was like, "There's no coincidence that when we made this choice to celebrate Penny's big, beautiful life and we had a celebration of her life, we did not call it a funeral." It was a celebration of Penny's life. Everyone wore color and we had the most beautiful flowers. And all of our friends came in and they spoke at her celebration, and the reception afterwards, we had girls dancing in Roller Rabbit pajamas, which we'll talk about.
And it was so beautiful. We had 1200 or 1300 people come out, because no one could believe it. And it was a moment of awe that I had looking around the room, right? We go back to you never burn a bridge. I looked around the room and I was like, oh my gosh, we have so many friends, so many family members, former clients, people from the industries, both of our careers who came in. And I just looked around and I think it was a moment of gratitude, that I was like, "We have so much love and we have so much support. There's no coincidence. There's a reason for all this."
Johanna Almstead:
This is all happening.
Kate Doerge:
It's all happening for a reason. And so, 24 hours later, 48 hours later, Chad and I woke up, and I remember it. I rolled over and I was like, "We got to do this."
We were getting phone calls of people being like, "We want to donate something in Penny's name. Where should we send it?"
And we were like, "Well, it's not just hospital for special surgery, who took care of her leg for all those years. And it's not just Memorial Sloan Kettering who handled her glioblastoma." We're like, "It's really under this umbrella of neurofibromatosis, NF." But because we had never focused on NF, we literally had to Google what's the best NF foundation?
Johanna Almstead:
What is this that my child has had?
Kate Doerge:
And so, with that, what was so crazy is when Penny's, all of her obituary and the following days we were telling people, "Oh, Children's Tumor Foundation."
So a couple of days later we were getting an email from CTF, who are since our partner, who were like, "Hello friend. Who are you?"
Johanna Almstead:
Who are you? And why are you sending so many people to my [inaudible 00:29:32]?
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, exactly. And, "We were receiving all these donations, we want to get to know you."
But it was because of that, that we woke up 48 hours after Penny's celebration of life, and I looked at Chad, I was like, "We got to do this. This is bigger than us and bigger than Penny, but it just feels like we got to do something purposeful."
And so, we decided then. We were like, "We're going to launch a foundation."
And neither of us knew, we had never launched a foundation before but I was certainly on boards. I'm on the board of Hospital for Special Surgery, the Kid's School, Glam for Good. There's a number of different boards. So we were like, "All right, what are we raising money for?" Well...
Johanna Almstead:
How do we do this?
Kate Doerge:
"How are we doing this?"
And it was a process of maybe three days that we brought in our family, our friends, and we sat around the dining room table and we were like, "Okay, we are not only going to keep Penny's big, beautiful legacy alive, but we're going to find a cure for neurofibromatosis and what are we going to name it?"
And looking back on it, it was so amazing, because it was this bringing people together. And Henry Doerge, our oldest, was like, "I just think..."
People were like, "Is it Penny's Purpose? She lived this big, beautiful, purposeful life and she's left this legacy behind."
And we're like, "Penny's Purpose. I don't know, maybe."
And Henry's like, "It's Penny's flight, it's her journey." I know. He's like, "It's her journey of the life she led and this life she continues for the future."
And that was really incredible, because from there wings spread. And Penny wore this butterfly every day, it was given to her for her birthday, and she wore it every day. And within just minutes, we just kept seeing butterflies everywhere. And it was like this sign and we sat around the table, and we're like, "It is just wings spreading and it's the simplest acts, such as a flap of a butterfly's wing, can cause a revolution, and that's what we need to do to find a cure."
And so, then it was spread your wings, shine your light, and it was our best friend who's not even an artist coming up with a logo of a butterfly. And it just happened like all of that. And so, we did it. And four weeks after Penny's Life celebration, we launched Penny's Life Foundation. And from the marketing PR mindset, we had planned it out, so that there was going to be pop-ups that were taking place in, at that point, I think there was 12 or 15 different pop-up awareness launches happening at various schools across the country. And randomly, or not randomly, because it was of course Penny working divine magic.
Johanna Almstead:
Penny working [inaudible 00:32:26].
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, like the day after we launched and we had all the bracelets made Penny's Flight, and we had the stickers, and the wings that we do for all of our pictures. There was Jimmy Fallon at a hockey game at our local hockey rink and there was Eli Manning. And all of a sudden we had pictures with, they were so incredible hearing about the foundation launching, and they're taking pictures with the butterfly hands. And Norah O'Donnell, one of our dear friends, brought us a week later on to CBS with Norah O'Donnell.
Johanna Almstead:
I remember. I was like, "How is this all happening so fast?"
Kate Doerge:
I don't know, except for the fact that I know that this was meant to be. So it was like Norah brought us on and-
Johanna Almstead:
You just had to go with the momentum.
Kate Doerge:
We just went with the moment. And Norah knew Penny for her whole life, but I think she was so inspired by the fact that again, no one knew what Penny was going through, because she just didn't lead her life with that. And our pillars of the foundation of finding beauty and imperfection, positivity in the face of challenge, and having faith over fear was so authentically Penny, because that's how she lived her life and how we live our lives, that it was like, "We need to impart this on others and spread those wings, and shine Penny's light, so that others can find this and hopefully lean into it."
And so, Norah was so happy to tell that story. And then Adam Glassman, who we both know well at Oprah, was also so inspired. And this is where I go back to never burn a bridge, because all these amazing friends were like, "We just want to help and we want to spread wings."
And Adam had been to Penny's celebration and her program was filled with her beautiful paintings, and it was so bright, he just said, he was like, "I just, Oprah and Gail, and the team are so inspired by how you all are turning pain into purpose, and finding light in the darkest times." So I wrote a piece for Oprah and that came out-
Johanna Almstead:
As one does.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, exactly. So I know, but it was one of those things I wasn't, first of all, I never take any of these relationships for granted or I never take advantage of them, but it's so authentically organic the way this all happened, that it just felt like, "Well, this is the way it's meant to be." And then-
Johanna Almstead:
[inaudible 00:34:49]
Kate Doerge:
... over the course of that spring, we were starting to plan our first annual fundraiser, which was our Family Jamboree, which was Chad's idea, because as a child, he grew up in Long Island and they would go to the Boston Pops. They performed, and they would go and bring picnic style with families and bring blankets. And kids would run around and kids would have their first kiss in the bushes, while the parents are sitting having wine on the blanket. And he just was like, "I want to do something that's really beautiful, that's very family oriented, that brings people together."
And he's obviously huge into music, as we talked about. And so, that was our annual fundraiser that we were focused on, because we didn't even think about other ways to raise money other than donations that were coming in. And we were so focused on this family jamboree that during the time of that first winter into the spring, we decided the first annual Penny's Flight Family Jamboree would take place on Penny's birthday, June 29th.
So we were planning that, but even before we got to that place, we had brands who were reaching out, friends of mine who, Veronica Beard, who was like, "I want to do in-store shopping events. I want to do the Veronica Beard Gives Back, with a percentage back to the foundation."
So that launched. Then I had Love Shack Fancy being like, "We want to do these events."
And so, even before we got to our Family Jamboree, we had all of this stuff happening. And Jenna Hager, who's an incredible friend of mine, and I've known her since we were younger, going to the same place for Spring Break, her daughters had been in Penny's glam camp. And when Penny was going through COVID, those-
Johanna Almstead:
Wait, I was going to say, you have to tell people what the glam camp is, because it's brilliant.
Kate Doerge:
It's incredible. I mean, listen, this younger generation, they're such entrepreneurs, right? It's like they come up with these businesses, you're like, "Oh my gosh, this is incredible."
And so, Penny and her two best friends, the summer of 2020, right before she was diagnosed, it was COVID. And so, right before her first brain tumor was COVID, and so many of these kids didn't have camps to go to. So these girls launched their own glam camp, which was amazing, because they rotated between the three houses and every day was a different theme. It was like, come dressed up as your favorite Barbie, come dressed as your favorite Disney character. And there was a group of 14 six to nine-year-old littles, who would come be at our house, or they would be at our other friend's house or the other friends. And I just laugh, because I remember during that time, we're all on Zoom. And so, I would be having these meetings on Zoom and there would be a little stream of littles behind me.
Johanna Almstead:
Little tinker bells running.
Kate Doerge:
Parading down. And I'd be like, "Oh no, don't mind me. That's just my daughter Penny and her glam camp," which was amazing.
But two of those little girls were Jenna's girls, and they just adored Penny. They just absolutely adored her, because she was so light and happy, and fun, and joyful. So she did that camp for two more summers, and that included all of that time of her going through her chemo and radiation, and to the point that she had radiation proton therapy treatment in the city for six weeks, and she had to go every single morning five days a week. And so, that was Monday through Friday while she had glam camp. And so, we would schedule these appointments. Glam camp started I think at 10, 10 or 11. We would schedule the appointments seven or 7:30, so she could have her 20-minute blast and be out in time for her to set up, get everything organized and be ready to greet those little kids.
Johanna Almstead:
So wait, this brings me to something, because I've been thinking about this whole conversation and it sounds like Penny had it too. I want to talk about the discipline of joy, the discipline of choosing joy. It came up for me when I was prepping this for you, and I keep thinking about it here, and I was thinking about how disciplined you are with your workouts and how disciplined you are with this. But I think there's something really important to think about here, which is it's easier probably to wallow.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
It would've been easier to do her appointment in the afternoon and sleep all day, and whatever. It would've been probably easier, I imagine it would've been easier for you and Chad to sleep than to start a foundation. So I think there's something about this, the word discipline keeps coming up for me, because it seems like it is an active choice and it is something that you're committing to, and it shows in your child who's also committing to this. Can you talk a little bit about that? What do you think about that?
Kate Doerge:
100%. No, I strongly believe and lean into that, and it is discipline, it's routine. It is actionable moments that you take every single day that keeps you one foot in front of the other. And I talk about this all the time with friends or friends of friends who are dealing with challenge, adversity, loss, where I recognize the difference it makes to literally put your feet first thing on the ground in the morning and go. And it's the simple acts of that routine and discipline of, I did a reel today on social media talking about mental fitness instead of mental health, and how it is the constant maintenance of almost like a muscle, right?
We're maintaining, we're nourishing, we're continuing to move and do things that help with our mental fitness. But I think this goes back to the discipline of that, of just these simple acts. For me, during that time, it was get up and go, and get outside, put my face to the sunshine. I had these mantras of faith over fear, that I put post-its all around my house. I had them on my computer, in the car. I had this rock, which I still do that says faith on it.
Johanna Almstead:
Did you have warnings where you were like, "I don't want to get out of bed. This is too hard."
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, but I knew the difference it would make. And again, I kept thinking about the boys and Chad, and how I was I guess this role model or leader, or influencer on my family and my friends. And I just knew the alternative was so dark and so bleak, that I just kind of pushed myself to sort of an out-of-body experience of just like, I just knew that if I got up and I just put my two feet on the ground, and I had one foot in front of the other, that I would go and I would get through the day. And I knew it wasn't going to be easy, but it was a lot easier than sitting in a bed with my covers over my head. And so, I do, I think there's a discipline to facing any challenge, adversity or certainly loss, where it's like if you can just put markers ahead of you, like keep walking out the door. Get yourself dressed.
Johanna Almstead:
Just get to that. Just make that choice. Make that choice, and then make the next choice.
Kate Doerge:
Exactly. Get outside, put your face to the sunshine, call a friend, text a friend, connect. Making those choices of, for me also, it was like keep hydrated. I decided, all right, I'm not going to drink during this time, because I want to stay mentally and physically focused and strong. So there's so much to that, of just again, this mental fitness that makes you feel stronger and more capable to face any challenge.
Johanna Almstead:
So I want to talk a little bit about that, because I feel like you sort of acknowledged that you were the bandleader here. You were beating the drum for your whole family, and you were setting the pace and you were setting the mood, and you were setting all of it. How did that affect, I think about her friends and I think about her brothers, and I think about these children and their children, and what that meant for them. Do you think that your tone changed the way they saw death, the way they saw grief, the way they wrapped their heads around it and went through this process of losing their best friend and their sister?
Kate Doerge:
100%. I mean, I think that none of them had lost anyone, my boys included. They had lost my mother and my father. But I think that even so Penny and the way that we handled Penny was predated by how we handled my mom's loss. And just a quick note of that, my father died of congenital heart failure pretty quick, but he was so of the mindset that when his time comes, his time comes.
Johanna Almstead:
Faith.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, faith. It was faith. And he would instill that in me and my kids, and he would always say that. He'd be like, "I just know when my time comes, my time comes."
And I'd be like, "Dad, that's so morbid."
He's like, "No, but I'm ready. I've had a great life."
And so, with my dad, when he passed, we were accepting of that and we celebrated my dad. We did a big down in Boca Grande, Florida where we go, community with his community and his dogs there, and it was beautiful. He was a Catholic service, but it was a celebration after the service. And so, when my mom died, my mom died five days before Christmas in a car crash. And that was really-
Johanna Almstead:
So hard.
Kate Doerge:
Well, that was another moment where I got the phone call. She was down in Florida. I have two brothers. Josh was in San Francisco, Michael was in New Hampshire, and I was the one who got the call, and it was from a family friend who had said my mom had been racing from a golf tournament. She was going to play tennis, and she just was living such a big, bright life. And she was racing out of her driveway, and she hit the back of a FedEx truck, and she died.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my God.
Kate Doerge:
It was instantaneous. And so, I had got the call that this accident happened, and then it was 10 minutes later after she'd been airlifted to the emergency room off this island that I got the call that she didn't survive. But it was a moment that, again, I was sitting in the car, it was snowing December 18th. I had been driving from the train station.
Johanna Almstead:
My dad died on December 18th too.
Kate Doerge:
You're kidding. What year?
Johanna Almstead:
2019.
Kate Doerge:
So my mom was 2018, so a year before your dad. So December 18th, and I pulled over on the side of the road, it was snowing, and I had a moment to myself, and I all of a sudden was like, I'm about to drive into my driveway, walk into a home that has a Christmas tree, Christmas lights, music, and three young children who are going to look at me, and it's up to me, how am I going to play the cards I'm dealt? And it was in that moment that I was like, my mom was the biggest, brightest, most beautiful light in life, and we can't mourn her, and we're in the season of a joy, so I have a choice. And so, I walked in and I told the kids what had happened, and I was like, but we're going to celebrate her and she would want us to do this, and it's Christmas, and we're going to celebrate.
And we did. I flew down to Boca Grande and similarly to Penny, and her friends and the boys when Penny passed, my mom's community, and all of her friends who were in such shock and dismay that this big, bright, beautiful life who should have lived until she was in her hundreds was gone, like that. They had seen her that morning. I talked to her that morning and all of a sudden she was gone. And so, it was even in that moment that I sort of took over this role of like, "Okay, well, this is what we're going to do. My mom was amazing. We're going to do this." And we decided to celebrate my mom in her three different communities where she was, and no one wore black again. And we had a fireworks display down in Boca Grande.
We did a parade in Fishers Island, come dressed as your favorite Cassie, because she was a belly dancer and she was a tap dancer, and a tennis player. And so, that was sort of the dress rehearsal for Penny. And so, when all of this happened with Penny, because we had created this love cocoon and because she went out on a rocket ship of love, and the girls and boys, and community were so much a part of that last 10 days and her whole life, I was quick to keep everyone close and make sure everyone felt the love. And I sent her closest girlfriends who have since, they're on our advisory board for Penny's Flight, and I sent them the book Signs. Because to be honest, everyone kept trying to send me these terrible grief books, which I was like, if I get one more book on the five stages of grief, I'm going to lose my mind.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm going to burn it down.
Kate Doerge:
I'm going to burn it down. I had this visceral reaction where I was like, I don't want that. I don't want to be told I'm going to be angry, depressed, in denial, I'm going to be bargaining, and then finally I'm going to accept. I was like, I want to celebrate. I want to connect. I want to be grateful for this life, and I want to do something, to your point about actionable things. I wanted to move forward to kind of not get through the grief, but just move forward, to keep going.
Johanna Almstead:
I wonder if there are people in your life, because I can imagine people in my life who would have a hard time with that.
Kate Doerge:
100%.
Johanna Almstead:
Were there people who had a hard time, who were like, "Kate, you're in denial." Or, "Kate, what the fuck are you doing?" Or, "I don't want to wear color. I want to wear black, and I want to mourn her." Did you have pushback on that?
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, I did. And it was interesting, because I'm not a bullish personality. I think I'm a strong personality, maybe in a kind way, but I remember those moments even before Penny passed, where people would walk into the house and they'd be like, "Ugh, Kate."
I'd be like, "Hi."
And I almost had to overdo it to overcompensate for their sorrow, because I just wanted to exude how I really felt, which is love, gratitude, connection, joy for the life Penny led, and how I wanted her to go out on this rocket ship of love. But it was hard. There was even Penny's celebration of her life. And it's been so interesting since, how I've changed sort of the dialogue in my own head especially, but helping others. But people who don't know what to say, and so-
Johanna Almstead:
And they're like, "This is all way more positive than I thought it was going to be."
Kate Doerge:
Exactly. And people, I spent so much energy and so much time comforting others.
Johanna Almstead:
Consoling them, yeah.
Kate Doerge:
Consoling them, but it felt like that's, I wanted to do that. I wanted to, instead of having people come up and say, "I'm so sorry."
My immediate response to I'm so sorry for loss was, "I'm so grateful for the life Penny led. I'm so grateful for the legacy she's left behind. I'm so grateful that we now can help other NF families by this foundation we've launched, and help others who are facing loss and challenge, and adversity." But it wasn't easy.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I was going to say it probably wasn't easy. And I can imagine there's some people, I've gotten the title in my family as Sergeant Joy.
Kate Doerge:
Oh, I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
Sometimes I'm the one that's like, "Nope, we're going to have a good time. We're not going to go there. We're not going to go there." Because it's so easy to go there, right?
Kate Doerge:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
But I wonder if you have any advice for our listeners, for people who are going through their own version of loss or grief, and that they're having a hard time finding those bright spots, what would be the one thing that you can say that maybe they could get out of their sweatpants and get out of that ball, curled up in the corner or whatever? Is there something small that they could try to do?
Kate Doerge:
I think gratitude. I think if you can reach for gratitude, for listen, even if you've had an incredibly tragic loss, like my mother with this car crash, I've heard many people who've lost children, their husbands by taking their own lives. There's some really deep dark losses out there. So I am not saying everything is rainbows and butterflies. That's not the case. But I think if we can change our mindset to lead with the recognition, you can find gratitude for the lessons someone left behind. So even if you had a complicated relationship with a lost loved one, there's still gratitude for what they've taught you or what you've gained from their loss, and how you can help others. I think that's a very powerful framing of thoughts and perspective, to look at it from the view of how can you take this loss as a lesson of whatever it might be, beauty, darkness, and help others. So if it's some-
Johanna Almstead:
It really is a reprogramming culturally.
Kate Doerge:
It is. And that's you think about Laura Kubler-Ross with the five stages of grief. It's so archaic, because it was written in the 1960s, so it shouldn't apply to today's way, because we're living in 2025. So it's what is today's version? And my view is with everything that's happening in the world of social media, we're so connected. We know what we ate, we know how we exercise, we know what we did every moment of every day. So there's so much connectivity. So who wants to feel isolation, denial, anger. You want to connect with people. We're in a world where there's celebrations and in other cultures they celebrate loss, so why shouldn't we?
Johanna Almstead:
Why shouldn't we? Speaking of which, you have a TEDx talk coming out this summer.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, that was crazy.
Johanna Almstead:
Speaking of modern connectivity.
Kate Doerge:
I know.
Johanna Almstead:
Tell me about that.
Kate Doerge:
Well, and how crazy is this? I will say for listeners out there, various stages of your life, how life is not a straight path. You swerve, you sway, you go in different directions. I know everything has led me to where I am today, but if you had told me back in our Paul Wilmot PR days, Kate Spade days, like, "Okay, you're going to be this motivational speaker and you will have written a book."
I'd be like, "What client am I going to be speaking about?" So I just laugh, because I was never in the front of the camera. I was always behind it.
Johanna Almstead:
Same.
Kate Doerge:
But it makes me realize, it all prepared us, I think, for what we're doing now, because it's set the stage and we have a better understanding. So I was really excited when Penny's Flight Foundation was launched, and we had all these chapters, I didn't talk about that, but the Penny's Flight chapters that launched across various colleges and high schools across the country, where these kids wanted to do pop-up events, play for Penny, pucks for Penny, pizza for Penny.
They were doing fundraisers, events, but also spreading awareness. So that has transpired, and we now have over 85 Penny's Flight chapters across colleges and high schools. It's been really incredible. So I feel like I have all of these ambassadors out there, my little butterflies spreading wings.
Johanna Almstead:
All your little butterflies out there.
Kate Doerge:
Yes. And so, this year has been a big growth year for me, because all of a sudden with all these little butterflies and all these ambassadors, and more coverage, as I was mentioning, Jenna Hager, we've been on the Today Show a couple of times. So the word just was getting out there. And as we're talking about this, changing the cultural norm and perspective, and voice around this. I had a friend who reached out year ago who had said, "You should write a book."
And I was like, "What am I going to write a book on?"
And she was like, "Just your story."
And that has evolved. I'll get to the book. But through this process of putting my voice out there and helping others, not just in the NF community, but finding light in the darkest times and turning pain into purpose. I had a friend who reached out this fall, and her son goes to Deerfield Academy, boarding school, high school, and she was like, "You're never going to believe this. I just saw that Deerfield does a TED talk and this year's theme is the Butterfly Effect." And I was like-
Johanna Almstead:
I know, will I just [inaudible 00:56:06].
Kate Doerge:
I know, I know. So she was like, "They're taking applications and of course you have to do it."
I was like, "What? What am I going to talk about?"
She was like, "Kate, everything you're talking about is what you're going to talk about."
Long story short, I sent in an application and I went through multiple rounds, and I was accepted to do this TED Talk. And so, it was such a wild experience, because I had to write my full speech. So I really had to think about what do I want to impart? What wisdom do I want to impart on these kids in a TED Talk? And it really became very clear to me about this idea of it's your wingspan, not your lifespan that matters. And what we do with our big, beautiful life and how we impact others in the most beautiful way. That's what makes the difference.
And so, is that idea how to turn pain into purpose and how it's your wingspan, not your lifespan. And even the simplest acts such as flap of a butterfly's wing can cause a revolution. And so, I put this all together and I laughed, because I went to Deerfield to do this TED Talk, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I want to inspire the whole student body." And I get there and it's an empty audience. I was like, "Where'd they go?"
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, no.
Kate Doerge:
Well, the funny thing is Deerfield, I think with these TEDxs, they type them and then they edit, and then they roll them out to TED platform, and then they roll it out. But it was one of Penny's best friends goes to Deerfield, and so there was a whole crew there. But I did have a moment. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm still learning through all of this," but I hope it will be inspiring.
I think if we recognize truly that the simplest acts such as even walking by someone on the pathway and locking eyes, and smiling, and saying hi, or have a great day. That's the butterfly effect. Then that person feels good, and then they do it to the next person, and then the next and next. That's on a simple level. What about inviting someone to sit with you at the lunch table who doesn't have anyone to sit with? What about launching a fundraiser for someone who's battling a condition and you're trying to help them? It can go on and on and on, so it doesn't have to be launching a foundation, but it's what can we do in our daily lives that impact others and make a beautiful difference?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I think that's interesting to think about, because I feel like there are probably some people who are going to listen to this and be like, "Okay, that's all fine and good for Kate, because she's clearly a superwoman. But what do I do when choosing joy feels hard? What can I do in my life that feels like, okay, I don't know if I'm going to start a foundation tomorrow, but I want to figure out something," right?
Kate Doerge:
Yes. Volunteering in your local community, I mean, we have so many examples even locally, of kids who've wanted to give back, kids who want to get involved, I mean, who are now volunteering at the men's shelter and they now have created this program, Do Unto Others, where they're bringing other kids in, and then they're sharing it on social media. Then they've created a website. It can grow from the simplest idea, is just what inspires you? How do you want to make a difference? Go read to older generation who are in an old folks home or whatever it might be. How do you help others in order to bring almost joy to yourself? I think that is the greatest gift, is that by giving your gift, it fuels you. So it's a constant sort of circle of gratitude. I keep going back, but like-
Johanna Almstead:
And that's what keeps you this energized.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, and that's what allows you to put your two feet on the ground and keep going, because if you recognize you are helping others and you're bringing joy to others, that brings joy to yourself. So that's the cycle of turn pain into purpose. What can you do that you recognize? You are using what you've learned and your pain to help others, and then that helps them, brings them joy. It's going to bring you more joy, and it's going to keep you going and going.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. You wrote a book, it's coming out next summer, summer 2026, right?
Kate Doerge:
Yes, yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Are you allowed to tell us what it's about?
Kate Doerge:
Yeah. I mean, I haven't even officially announced it, but I will here.
Johanna Almstead:
You heard it here first.
Kate Doerge:
You heard it here first. I'm so thrilled and honored. As I said, I had so many people who were like, "You've lived a lot and you've experienced a lot in your lifetime." And for so long, I just didn't even know what that meant or what that looked like, or how I could tell that story. A lot of people say, you're not allowed to say this, but I'll say this with the caveat that I don't read a lot of books, so it's a little bit ironic. I mean, I do, but I'm always on the go. So for me-
Johanna Almstead:
I'm sorry. You get a pass. You're a little bit busy.
Kate Doerge:
But I mean, I listen to books-
Johanna Almstead:
No one's allowed to judge you for not reading.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, I listen to podcasts, but I don't sit still a lot. So when someone was like, "You should write a book."
I'm like, "I don't even know where to start."
But it was this beautiful friend of mine who made this introduction to my ghostwriter, my co-author, and it was an incredible conversation, because we didn't start out with, "We're going to write a book together." It was, "We are connecting."
And her son had been through a lot, and so we were talking about that, and then all of a sudden there were these crazy signs that came about. She lost a sister, and her sister's name was Cassie, my mom was Cassie. It just was all these little things. So we started talking and she was like, "This is how I do it, and this is what we do."
And we just started and she put together the pitch, the proposal, the overview, the chapter excerpts, and we pitched it out, and it was this beautiful process, and Hay House bought it, and they are publishing it, and it's going to come out next spring. And what I will say is it goes back to the idea of it's a self-help book, finding light in the darkest time, and I have re-imagined the five stages of grief to lead with positivity. It's leading with connection, celebration, gratitude, acceptance, and turning pain into purpose. And my hope is to be able to change the narrative and help a lot of people out there, who I think based even on myself, are yearning for this. They don't want to get the old five stages of grief anymore when they lose someone. They want-
Johanna Almstead:
I don't think they know what they want, right? They just really don't want that.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, exactly. And that's what was so unbelievable when you asked that question about did I teach Penny's brothers and this younger generation? I think that I did, because of that, because people kept sending me the five stages of grief, and it was such a visceral reaction to me. When someone sent me, and I know exactly who it was, and I'm so grateful for her, I intuitively knew this is how I wanted to lead my life and this journey, but when someone sent me the book Signs, it was like a revelation for me, because all of a sudden I was like, "That's exactly how I feel. I see Pennys everywhere. I see butterflies, I see the bright sunshine when I think of my mom, or rainbows and my dad."
I felt so close to my lost loved ones, that that book Signs just reinforced it. So first thing I did was I sent it to Penny's girls. I sent each one of them a copy and the boys, and I just said, "I just want you to keep this in mind."
And then we have a group text, so there was constant texts back and forth. They'd be like, "Oh my gosh, I was having such a day and I walked into my dorm, and I was missing Penn, and what's on the floor, but Penny."
And I was like, "She's with you."
And they would say that they would be at a game and they would just be feeling crappy, and all of a sudden a butterfly would go by. So I think to open their eyes to that and have them open their own eyes to knowing they can connect with Penny in that way, and they can literally talk to her and say, "Penn-"
Johanna Almstead:
It really feels like it keeps them with you longer.
Kate Doerge:
It's so much. Oh my God, so tight and so connected, and just those sharing of stories all the time. I text them multiple times a day, and they are so proud, because again, it goes back to turning pain into purpose, having them have actionable items and opportunities, where they feel like they can help others and they can be involved. And of course, one of them is as we grow the foundation, we've had these amazing opportunities, such as the recent one with Roller Rabbit, which was a beautiful collaboration.
Johanna Almstead:
That's so cute.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah. Penny's most favorite pajamas and most favorite brand. And the fact that there's no coincidence that Ed Bertouch and I, who's the CEO, are friends, and when we were having a conversation about Roller Rabbit, really, I was talking to him about the brand and he was like, "Oh my gosh, Roller Rabbit's all about bringing joy and beauty, and light."
And I was like, "Of course it is. And that's why Penny wore the pajamas to every surgery."
She had all 15 of them, to bring her pajamas, and no coincidence it was her favorite brand. And then we were talking about no coincidence that when the girls did the dance at Penny's life celebration, they were wearing Roller Rabbit pajamas. And then he was like, "Kate, there's no coincidence. We've never done butterflies before."
And I was like, "Wow."
Johanna Almstead:
We have to do butterflies.
Kate Doerge:
I was like, and he was like, and so we did it, but it was so beautiful, because Penny's best girlfriends and her cousin were the models for the photo shoot.
Johanna Almstead:
I wondered, I imagined that that's who they were, but I didn't know. When I saw the pictures, I'm like, "I hope these are Penny's friends.
Kate Doerge:
Yes, they were all her friends. And so, how beautiful is that? I go back to there's no handbook on how to handle the loss of your daughter, your sister, your best friend, your cousin at 16 years old. And so, I think we have just been navigating these waters the best we can, but certainly leading with joy and celebration, and connection, and positivity and purpose. That's what it goes back to.
Johanna Almstead:
What's something that you've once believed about yourself that you now have outgrown, that you've changed?
Kate Doerge:
Oh my gosh. I mean, I think whether it's outgrown or just the recognition that I'm living my life's purpose, I think that when I go back to our PR days, I just, in my heart of hearts, felt like I wanted to do something big and I wanted to do something purposeful. And I always would think about what client can I make a big impact? And I was doing-
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, yes, I do know, yeah.
Kate Doerge:
Right, but I was doing it, but it always felt like I wanted to do more. There was just-
Johanna Almstead:
And it was somebody else's cause.
Kate Doerge:
And it was someone else's cause, yeah. And I loved it, and I was like, "Oh, this is so rewarding to be able to give back and see the impact it has."
Eloquii, there was that brand for plus size, and I loved seeing the reaction of women who were feeling like they were seen and dressed beautifully, and feeling good about themselves. So all of these different brands, I was so fueled by what they were able to do and how they were able to make people feel. And I was a part of that, but there was always something more. So I think the lessons that I've learned is you just keep leaning into your beliefs and where your passions are, because the recognition of you do end up living your life's purpose, your path leads you to where you're meant to be, even though it might not-
Johanna Almstead:
If you're paying attention.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah, if you're paying attention and you're really putting your passion into it.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, I think it's funny, because one of my questions is always like, are there any major pivotal moments in your life where you think, "Wow, if I hadn't done that, things could have turned out very differently?" And I think this whole episode has basically been about that. I mean, this could have derailed your entire life, right? You could have gone down the road of major depression, major heartache, major angst, grief, stayed in grief for the rest of your life, and then taught that lesson to your children and your husband, and your daughter's friends and your community. And I think what a major choice you made. What a major, a sliding doors moment. You could have gone a very different direction.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah. And I've seen other people, and thank you for that, but I also think it wasn't... The decision, it just was so organic and so natural in terms of this is just what I am going to do, because the alternative is so bleak, that I have heard of others, and I do know others who've gone the other direction. The doors have slid the other way, and I think it is bleak. And you're right, I have a whole family and a community, and others who I want to be leading the same life and go in this direction. So the alternative is that that lesson of teaching darkness and mourning, and grief is so heavy that it does take more energy to go this direction, but the outcome is so much more rewarding and beautiful, and bright. It's like, who wouldn't want to do this if they had the tools and understood the difference it can make?
Johanna Almstead:
It's funny, because if you think about that saying that everyone always says when someone passes like, "Well, they wouldn't want you to be sad. They would want you to be happy."
And it sort of feels trite in the moment, and it feels annoying, I think, to a lot of people who are in serious grief. But really, you're sort of taking that and turning it on its head a little bit, and well, "What life am I going to lead as an example to my daughter and to my sons? And as a reflection of her life that she lived, and do her life the honor that it deserves," right?
Kate Doerge:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
I think that's an interesting way to frame it, because I think that there's so many people who are just like, "I don't want to hear it now. I know. Yes, I know they wouldn't want me to cry. I know they want," but it's kind of true.
Kate Doerge:
It is true.
Johanna Almstead:
Nobody would want you to be suffering.
Kate Doerge:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
And he certainly wouldn't want you to be, right.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah. No, and that's exactly it. It's like if we can recognize that, that it's not only to honor that person's life and their legacy, but all of those around us. No, of course, no one would want us to be sad, but it's like, Penny lived a beautiful life. She deserves to be celebrated. She deserves to be now on a big stage and having her wings spread across the country. She's so proud. I mean, I think about that all the time. I'm like, she was a beautiful 16-year-old who lived this positive beautiful life. And what's interesting, and it may sound a little woo-woo, but it's like I'm thinking about Penny's girlfriends and they're going to prom, and they're graduating, and never do I have a moment of like, "Oh, I'm so sad Penny's not experiencing this." Because the reality-
Johanna Almstead:
You don't?
Kate Doerge:
I don't, because the reality is Penny's so much bigger than a prom right now.
Johanna Almstead:
Prom is small potatoes compared to what she's doing.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah. I think that is what is incredible.
Johanna Almstead:
That's huge. And I'm sure that that's, for your sons, I think probably a really intense and huge lesson. They could have lost their sister, and they could have lost their mom and dad through grief.
Kate Doerge:
100%. And majority of people who lose children usually typically end up in divorce, family's a disaster, the whole thing. And to be able to turn that on its head and have Penny be this celebrity, I'm always like, what?
Johanna Almstead:
She's a rock star.
Kate Doerge:
She's a rock star. The boys, I think they just are so proud that it's taken this direction and that they go places, and people are like, ""Oh my gosh, Penny's Flight."
Johanna Almstead:
They're Penny's brothers.
Kate Doerge:
Penny's brothers, which is so cute. And the alternative just would've been so bleak, and that's what's so beautiful. So I do think about that. I'm like, Penny is a celebrity, and she's so proud of the way that I think we've played the cards we've been dealt.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, that's a really beautiful thing.
Kate Doerge:
Thank you.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, so since we're working on choosing joy, this is my favorite part of my interviews, is that I like to do a little lightning round of silly questions.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah. Love it.
Johanna Almstead:
Is that okay?
Kate Doerge:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Are we allowed to do that?
Kate Doerge:
Totally.
Johanna Almstead:
I feel like Penny would approve.
Kate Doerge:
She would approve. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
They bring me joy, so I hope they bring you joy, and I hope they bring our listeners joy. Don't overthink it. What is your ultimate comfort food?
Kate Doerge:
Carrot cake.
Johanna Almstead:
Ooh, my mom's too. What is something you're really good at?
Kate Doerge:
Rebounding.
Johanna Almstead:
Literally and figuratively, I would say.
Kate Doerge:
Yes. Yes. I love that. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
What is something you're really bad at?
Kate Doerge:
Math. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Favorite word?
Kate Doerge:
Joy.
Johanna Almstead:
Least favorite word?
Kate Doerge:
Sadness.
Johanna Almstead:
Least favorite food? Like deal breaker. No way. You're not eating it.
Kate Doerge:
Hamburgers.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Kate Doerge:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Best piece of advice you've ever received?
Kate Doerge:
It's up to you how you play the cards you're dealt in life.
Johanna Almstead:
Thanks, dad, right?
Kate Doerge:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
If your personality were a flavor, what would it be?
Kate Doerge:
Rainbow sprinkles? No. I would say I keep thinking sunshine, but if I was a flavor, sweet. I go back to carrot cake.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Have you ever had a moment in your life when you have had to eat your words, when you had to just take it back or zip, zip, zip, rewind?
Kate Doerge:
Probably if I ever talk too much or I can't think of an exact moment. I mean, I like to tell my husband when he tells us that we do too much social media for Penny's Flight, but yet when Cold Spring Harbor Labs reached out to us to be a research partner, it was because they found us on social media. So I told him to take back his words.
Johanna Almstead:
So he needs to eat his words.
Kate Doerge:
He needs to eat his words. Yeah. I have to-
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. We'll take that.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
We'll take that one.
Kate Doerge:
Okay.
Johanna Almstead:
I'll give it to Chad. If you had to eat one food for the rest of your life every day, what would it be?
Kate Doerge:
Carrot cake.
Johanna Almstead:
You're very consistent. I like it. Where is your happy place?
Kate Doerge:
Oh, sunshine. Whether it's at the beach or walking my dogs, or on a snowy mountain, it's sunshine. Putting my face to the sun.
Johanna Almstead:
Every time.
Kate Doerge:
Every time.
Johanna Almstead:
What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world?
Kate Doerge:
Oh, I wear a Veronica Beard-
Johanna Almstead:
I noticed your Veronica Beard blazer.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah. Superwoman blazer. Without a doubt. I always feel strong and capable when I'm in Veronica Beard anything, but definitely a blazer. It makes it feel like a power suit.
Johanna Almstead:
Power moment. Most memorable meal you've ever had?
Kate Doerge:
Most memorable meal. Probably at our wedding. I mean, I still remember everything we ate and the feeling that I had, and the joy of having all of my friends and family around us, and my wedding cake was carrot cake.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, love that. Again, very consistent.
Kate Doerge:
Yes. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Discipline. The discipline of carrot cake.
Kate Doerge:
It is, it is.
Johanna Almstead:
Go-to coping mechanism on a bad day?
Kate Doerge:
Sunshine. It is exercise and sunshine. I mean, it really is. I am consistent, as you saw. That's like I just have these routines that I know that if I do it, I'm going to feel better. And maybe that's growing up with a jazzercise instructor, belly dancing mother, but she always taught us, "You got to just move your body."
Johanna Almstead:
What is one thing you know for sure, right now, in this moment?
Kate Doerge:
We will find a cure for NF.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, you will.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Where can people find you? Tell us your Instagram handle and where can they find out about Penny's Flight?
Kate Doerge:
Thank you. Yeah, so personal for my motivational speaking and everything I'm doing, and news on the book it's @DoergeK, which is Doerge is D-O-E-R-G-E K. And then, for Penny's Flight, sometimes they're very interconnected @PennysFlight on Instagram. We're also on LinkedIn, we're on TikTok, we're on Facebook. Website is www.pennysflight.org. My website, www.katedoerge.com. It's a lot. Social media. There's a lot of platforms, but-
Johanna Almstead:
It's a lot of places to be.
Kate Doerge:
Yeah. We're there.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, Kate, thank you so, so much for being here, for sharing your story, for doing the work that you're doing in the world. You are a beautiful example of the butterfly effect, and I hope some ripples from your wings today. We'll touch so many people that have been listening, so I am forever grateful for you for coming on today.
Kate Doerge:
I am so grateful to you, and thank you for helping us spread wings and shine a light, and every flap of a butterfly's wing does make a difference, so thank you, truly, from the bottom of my heart.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you. Well, that was amazing. Thank you all for listening. If you enjoy this podcast, please share it with your friends, like, comment, subscribe to it, so it shows up in your feed. Follow us on social media, which is Eat My Words The Podcast, on Instagram and on TikTok, and drop us a line. Tell us what you're thinking about. Tell us what you're cooking up. Tell us what you're craving and tell us what you want to hear from us. Thanks so much.