Eat My Words

Johanna Almstead:
Hi everyone. So I'm having lots of fun planning the menu for my next guest. I think I'm going to do a little riff on French Bistro vibes for the evening. So I'm going to start with just a super, super cold crisp crudité. I was thinking about this crudité that they serve at the Polo Bar in New York, which is, it's in this lovely silver footed bowl with crushed ice inside and then they put all the veggies on top so the veggies stays super, super cold and crisp. So I'm going to do that, I'm going to be fancy like that. And I'm going to do just a yogurt and fresh herbs with really good sea salt on top as the dip. And I think I'll also do a burrata with some garden fresh tomatoes and a big drizzle, some olive oil, some fresh basil and some sea salt with some nice crusty bread to spread that on.
And I think I'm going to open a really, really, really cold bottle of Sancerre, just like a really crisp Sancerre to start and keep it a little light because dinner's going to be a little heavier. I'm going to go like steak frites, like French Bistro steak frite vibe for dinner, some really beautifully grilled, I like New York Strip steaks, so I'm going to do New York Strips. I'd really just drizzle them with olive oil, rub it all in, and then a bunch of salt and pepper and mush it all in, massage it all in, and I'm going to make some french fries. I'm going to make homemade french fries. Maybe I'll try that recipe, the New York Times ones that everyone was talking about forever. Maybe I'll try that recipe because I've actually never tried it, so I'm going to make some fries and I think I'm just going to serve that with really simple mescaline greens tossed in a really yummy Dijon and balsamic and olive oil. Simple, super easy, super fun.
And I think with dinner I'm going to open a red wine. I think since it's summery, it's going to stick with a lighter red, like a Pinot Noir. I have this Sea Smoke Pinot Noir, so, so good. That's what we're going to do there. I think the music, this one loves to dance, so we've got to keep it upbeat and fun and it'll probably end up in a dance party. So I'm thinking a little Kygo. She also likes old school, so I feel like maybe some Fleetwood Mac maybe, Journey. Don't Stop Believing. Is that Journey? I don't know. Whoever that is, I think that'll be fun. I'm going to light some candles, I'm going to turn on some music, I'm going to get that wine open. I'm super excited for you guys to get to know my next guest. She's hilarious. She's one of my favorite people in the world and she's going to make for an interesting conversation, I'm pretty sure. So let's dig in.
Hello, everyone and welcome to Eat My Words. I am real excited for my guest today. She is a seasoned fashion industry veteran and strategic advisor with over 25 years of experience, she has worked for amazing brands like Ralph Lauren, Kate Spade, Draper James, Rifle Paper Company, and MTV. She is now the CEO of E. Frances paper, which is an amazing brand and I can't wait to hear all about that. She is known for her sharp, strategic vision and operational rigor. She specializes in helping early and mid-stage companies unlock growth across DTC, wholesale, licensing, and brand partnerships. Whether building brands or building character in her kids, she believes success is as much about integrity as it is about impact, which I love.
She has a wife, a sister, an auntie, a mother, and a stepmother to three boys. She's the youngest of five and only girl, so she learned early on how to lead with grit and grace. She's also a dog mom to her doodle mix, Stormy Daniels, she is a fiercely protective and loyal friend, the most enthusiastic dancer I've ever known, and someone I am so grateful and lucky to call one of my people. She's also a member of my own personal board of directors, a term she coined and someone who I rely on to make me laugh, give it to me straight and to pull no punches when it comes to advice. She's also one of the original guests of my first dinner party that was the impetus for this whole podcast. Trish Whale, welcome to Eat My Words.
Tricia Whalen:
Hello, hello.
Johanna Almstead:
Hello, hello. Thank you for being here.
Tricia Whalen:
Thank you for having me, Joe. This is exciting and nerve wracking.
Johanna Almstead:
I promise it won't be torturous. I hope it won't be torturous.
Tricia Whalen:
I think it'll be fu.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe I should have made you have a martini or something before.
Tricia Whalen:
I thought about it. I definitely thought about it, and asked a former guest, whether booze was involved when she did her interview.
Johanna Almstead:
It's a little early, but no judgment. Well, first of all, I'm so happy to have you here.
Tricia Whalen:
Thank you for having me.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you so much for taking the time out of your insane life to be here with me. I'm very grateful.
Tricia Whalen:
And Joe, I just want to say congratulations. This is so awesome that you're doing this.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you. Thank you.
Tricia Whalen:
I listen to every episode loyally and I love it. I just love it.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Tricia Whalen:
I find each of the guests to be so interesting and different perspectives, but consistent bravado in a way that I just really appreciate. It's almost like finding more of our kind of people. So I love that part of it.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that's great. I love that you love it.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Considering you were part of the original weird little seed that was in my brain a long time ago.
Tricia Whalen:
No, I think it's just reinforcing that there's a lot more of us out there and I think that's reassuring. I think part of that original get together for us was like it was during a transitional time for all of us, and I think that coming back together, as simple as that dinner was, it was just like we have people, there is a net of people around us. And so I think with this podcast, what's been so great is meeting new people I don't know, and having them share it and realizing that there's more of us, like gremlins, we're multiplying, and I think that's a really good thing in this time in our society and life, knowing there's more of us out there as strong women, inspirational women is great.
Johanna Almstead:
I hadn't thought about it that way. I love that. I just can't wait to do an IRL event when we get all of them guests together.
Tricia Whalen:
Totally. I've thought about it, I'm like, I can't wait to sit with Maria. I don't think I've ever met her. She's amazing. So I'm into it. I'm into it, I'll be there.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, good. Yay. So I always like to try to give context to the listeners about how we know each other. You and I have known each other for almost 20 years, I think.
Tricia Whalen:
Yep.
Johanna Almstead:
You were working on the licensing team at Kate Spade when I started there. You were already there and you had been there when Kate and Andy were there.
Tricia Whalen:
Original OG.
Johanna Almstead:
Original OG. So we worked very closely together for many years and I think helped grow that business to a very, very, very large.
Tricia Whalen:
Sizeable amount.
Johanna Almstead:
A sizable amount, and we had a great time doing it. We were super lucky. We talk about this a lot on the podcast because it was such a big part of my career and because we've had other guests who were there, but it really was a magical time and it was one of those things where I feel like it was hard and we worked our asses off, but it was one of those moments in life when the stars align and this beautiful momentum happens and we all got to be a part of it, which was super fun.
Tricia Whalen:
I feel like when I reflect back, about a year ago, I had to go out and interview, and so when you're interviewing it forces reflection, specifically it was career-wise. And on that tip, I would say the magical part is so necessary in order for you to at least enjoy it. I think the hard work you're talking about, Joe, of course there's plenty of places we could go and do hard work, but if you don't have that magical nature of culture or just a team around you or just people you're interacting with every day, that part is what makes it so special when you're doing that hard work.
And that's not everywhere, but I have been fortunate for sure I can rattle off like MTV, there was this magical group, the old guard at Kate Spade. Then when the new guard came in, that's a little risky and you guys definitely reinforced a new magic. And then even at Rifle, I felt like it was a magical time building a team and having the right people in place to do the work. So yeah, I don't feel like it's talked about enough because it really is such a critical piece to actually enjoying the part that is work.
Johanna Almstead:
And I think it's also part of the culture. I think that people underestimate the value of really intentionally creating a culture at a company and really hiring into that vision of what that culture is going to feel like, look like, sound like, all of it. And I think people don't really think about that much. You think about the org chart, you think about the roles you need to fill and you think about the growth and the goals, but you don't necessarily think about what you're trying to create internally also.
Tricia Whalen:
I wonder if it's also just leadership, having leadership respect, culture as an important attribute to success. Because when I think about the different places, I just rattled off that had that magical nature to it, and again, feeling so fortunate that it was more than once I had that ride. I think it probably boils down to leaders that respect it and think it's important and make it important. And it's not about overdoing it's just making sure that it's thought about.
Johanna Almstead:
And that it's a priority.
Tricia Whalen:
And that it's supported. What do we need to do to make it that, whatever that is.
Johanna Almstead:
I was telling the story on my solo episode about how when I interviewed a Kate, they told me that one of their goals was to have a gracious work environment, and that was actually what sealed the deal for me to actually take the job because I had come from places that were not as gracious. And I think about that all the time and I think about how it worked when we were in that culture, there would be heated debate.
Tricia Whalen:
Oh, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And there would be really intense personalities with really strong opinions that shared those personalities and shared those opinions with each other. But it was done under this umbrella for the most part, under this umbrella of trying to keep it respectful and collaborative and productive as opposed to nasty.
Tricia Whalen:
If there's leaders that focus on it. And when you go through those tough times, I can literally see an interaction I had with one of our colleagues, and it's a core memory now because I think it helps unlock how you, as you continue to scale in your career, but also in your life, deal with difficult moments. I think this one example I'm thinking of is really about understanding where she was coming from. I thought it was coming at me, and then when I finally forced myself to be like, what's happening? Why is that happening between you and I? That's odd. She was going through something. Do you know what I mean?
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Tricia Whalen:
I think now as I lead teams, I'm very self-aware and sensitive about that and I have empathy for it, too, especially as someone who's leading change. And I think that when we talk about our time at Kate's Spade, so much of it is change. Change is not, a majority of the people in this country do not change.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. It's not comfortable.
Tricia Whalen:
It's not comfortable. And so I think that time at Kate where we were implementing so much change, we had to rely on each other, but then we also had to know how to get comfortable with uncomfortable with each other. And I talk about that a lot when I'm leading teams. It's okay. It's better we get it out and listen to each other and understand where each other's coming from. And then even as a leader, my style is very much, I love input from everyone, but my role is to be decisive in the end. And so I always, when I start somewhere or when I have someone start working with me, I always say you'll find I'm very direct, almost to a fault, very self-aware of that directness can often be translated to abruptness, but also that I never want someone to walk away and be like, I don't know what she was saying, or that was passive, or did she really mean something?
And that's why I instill that directness. And then I also feel like I always say, "I will encourage you to give me your feedback." You'll see me take the extra time to talk to as many people as I think I need to, to get their input. And then in the end, I'll always formulate my own decision and you'll be very clear about what my decision is. And even if I don't agree with you, that's not a negative thing because I'll probably agree with you another time. I have to think about it holistically and say, "For us right now, this is the best decision." But soliciting input and being like, look, it's opposite of my input. I do feel like that time really, it taught us how to do that. And I think that's a very valuable personality trait. Something I look for when I'm hiring.
Johanna Almstead:
It's almost like diplomacy. It's a little bit of diplomacy in a way, right?
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah, and maybe it's feeling more reinforced again, now, just what we're dealing with in the world. Sometimes it feels like diplomacy doesn't exist. And so maybe the reason that happens in the macro is to reinforce or remind us of those things that we experienced and why they were so positive.
Johanna Almstead:
And that it has to be that diplomacy is intentional, right?
Tricia Whalen:
Yep, so fake it.
Johanna Almstead:
It's easy for us to come in and be like, huh. It's easy to come in and be like, "I got this idea and this is my idea and this is what should happen and your idea's not right." And that diplomacy takes discipline and it takes energy and it takes intention, and I think that that's huge.
Tricia Whalen:
And patience.
Johanna Almstead:
And patience. Yes. So I want to back up a little bit because I want to talk a little bit about where you came from and where your journey began. I like to ask that question because I feel like everybody sees their journey beginning at, it's not necessarily at birth, like the beginning of your journey. So where did your journey begin?
Tricia Whalen:
It's funny, I've been asked that I think just through my mom used to always say, "I don't know where you came from," which is odd for your mother to say to you. I can tell you literally where I came from, but also, I just recently joined a company and my boss was at dinner like, "How did you become this person?" And I like to always start with, I really think the root of who I am and what I've evolved into as a person is my background in being the youngest in a family of five. I think five kids is a lot, and also being the only girl and really not. It was something that was interesting. But later on in life, I've now realized it's so much of what formulated who I am in the most simplistic way you, especially when you have four men over you, you learn very quickly that you need to navigate.
You need to be very articulate and communicate very directly, there's that word again, if you want to be heard at all. And it also makes you a tough cookie. So I think people would describe me as tough, and I think the tough cookie phrase always comes out in my mind because I think it's part of just how I grew up.
Johanna Almstead:
You had to fight for a little bit of space of oxygen.
Tricia Whalen:
For sure, just to talk. So I feel like a lot of that part when I think about it is so much foundational is my background. But I also think when I think about my mom saying, I don't know where you come from, I remember having this conversation with her and I said, "Mom, I was always surrounded, even as a child, around really strong, what I like to say, body women."
Johanna Almstead:
Body. Oh, I love that word.
Tricia Whalen:
My mom's from Queens and the people we would spend our summers, there were so many women that were, my mom's were either her friends, my aunt, my grandmother, just no nonsense. Do you know what I mean?
Johanna Almstead:
I wish we could play some of the recordings of your mom that you had on your voicemail.
Tricia Whalen:
I saved a voicemail from my mother for I think at least four years. I played it in Boston at the sale off bar for people. I was like, it's incredible. You don't even need to know her, just listen to this. It was as if she was talking to me, but it was a voicemail and it went on and on and on. And she was watching Oprah, and it just is. So I said this to her that I think about your friend Ronnie or Jane and Steph, there were people around me, strong women.
Johanna Almstead:
Not afraid to speak their minds.
Tricia Whalen:
No nonsense, not a lot of emotion or drama. And it was fun. I looked at them and I was like, they're having fun, and I love that. And when I think even about our core group, it's like I have seeked out people, consumers and producers in this world. There are consumers and there are producers. Find the consumers. Find the producers.
Johanna Almstead:
I was like, wait, what?
Tricia Whalen:
Find the fellow producers and go towards them. That's definitely something I've lived by, but I think because it's also formulated who I am, those women. So being the youngest of five with four older brothers and then being around strong women sitting on the beach talking about just things and picking it up like a sponge and just realizing you can be direct. You can say what you want, you can have opinions. So I feel like that's also part of my original core background that has foundationally made me who I am. So, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Did you always know that you wanted to work in fashion?
Tricia Whalen:
My sister-in-law who, she dated my brother since they were in high school, so she's been in my life the longest and it's probably the closest thing I have to a real sister. And she was almost like a weird mentor to me. She would say she'd come to dinner and I would just stare at her because I-
Johanna Almstead:
How many years older was she than you?
Tricia Whalen:
She's six years older than me, six or seven.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, she was like a hero.
Tricia Whalen:
But she was the first girl and she was an Esprit model and she brought over her hand-me-downs and I was like, oh my god, right? Because again, I was around boys, they were giving me nothing.
Johanna Almstead:
Right, she was probably very glamorous to you.
Tricia Whalen:
Still is. So she was an early female influence that wasn't so, like old mom's friend or aunt, and she worked in fashion. She worked at Ralph as a buyer, and so she took me under her wing when I was of intern age. And then I also, I had multiple internships, but I would say that once I got exposed to fashion, it was fashion or entertainment really quickly, those were my internships. But she had bought me into Laura Ashley in Southampton and then I babysat for the lady she babysat for. So that's why I say she was a little bit like a mentor, and so then exposed me to fashion, but then I had a little stint in the entertainment world, which is so fun.
Johanna Almstead:
Right, because you worked at MTV.
Tricia Whalen:
And I interned at Ralph, and then I had this stint. I worked for someone in my hometown who was an executive at Viacom who owns MTV and VH1, and I interned there, too. These were the days of paid internships where I always have to say amazing. Amazing.
Johanna Almstead:
I know,
Tricia Whalen:
Awesome experience, and you got paid. Anyway, and so then when I came out of school, I had the two paths, which one was... I was interviewing both. I eventually took the MTV job and I'm so glad I did because when you are 21 years old working at MTV in the nineties, it was magic. The squad was awesome, but what you did every day and where you showed up every day and everyone had a TV in their office and it was just wild.
Johanna Almstead:
So cool.
Tricia Whalen:
It was super cool. And I think it was when I was about five years, my tenure there was about five years, a friend said like, "Oh, I see they're looking for this licensing person at Kate Spade." And no one picks licensing. You fall into it. I fell into it at MTV just understanding their properties, and things like Jackass was really important. And so it was like how do you make t-shirts and posters and extend the revenue from this franchise of theirs through product?
Johanna Almstead:
So yeah, I was going to say, let's stop and explain what licensing is a little bit.
Tricia Whalen:
Sure.
Johanna Almstead:
Just one-on-one for people who don't know it.
Tricia Whalen:
It is a very unique, I don't want to say niche, but like I said, I always start it by saying that no one picks it. You don't come out of school like, I'm going to be in licensing.
Johanna Almstead:
You don't major in licensing.
Tricia Whalen:
No. You fall into it, I think. And so essentially, when MTV would have hit shows, Beavis and Butthead or Punk'd or Jackass was really a big portion of my years there where they have a hit show. It's like how do you extend the return on that show through merchandise, essentially? And in fashion, it's similar, build a brand, and then how do you extend to the brand into different product categories that you may not want to do yourself and take on yourself because it's outside of your current capabilities or the resources that you have, or it would take a lot of investment to get into a certain business. Home is a good one where it's often licensed because if you're making handbags, in the instance of Kate Spade, you don't go out and figure out how to make wallpaper and plates, and ship the plates, and quality check, and sell to department stores that buy home. So it's often categories of product that the brand or property can extend into that you do through other partnerships.
Johanna Almstead:
I think a lot of normal, average consumers don't understand that Ralph Lauren is not actually making Ralph Lauren sheets. That a sheet producer is making, or bedding producer, I should say, is making sheets for Ralph Lauren and also probably making them for.
Tricia Whalen:
Kate Spade.
Johanna Almstead:
Donna Karan and Kate Spade and all those other things.
Tricia Whalen:
Yep, usual suspects, yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Same things for watches, sunglasses.
Tricia Whalen:
Fragrance, beauty.
Johanna Almstead:
There's all those things that I think a lot of people don't know, actually. Okay, so you're at MTV. You stayed at MTV for five years.
Tricia Whalen:
Yep.
Johanna Almstead:
And you fell into licensing there, and what made you leave?
Tricia Whalen:
A friend of mine said, "Kate Spade has a posting." So now I'm in my twenties and it's like I'm living in the city and there's a posting on the best part about this is it was a content site, because e-commerce didn't exist, yet.
Johanna Almstead:
Wait, what was it? A content site?
Tricia Whalen:
It was just a site that told you about the brand Kate Spade, but it wasn't selling you anything because e-commerce didn't exist.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, right. Actually, yeah, I remember that site.
Tricia Whalen:
It was just the brand site. It was the behind the curtain just telling you the story about the brand. So the internet was new, really dating myself here.
Johanna Almstead:
And then we had a horse and buggy.
Tricia Whalen:
A rotary phone that I called Kate Spade on to apply for the job. Now essentially it was just a site that just told you about the brand. E-commerce hadn't been developed yet, and so there was no selling you of products. So I had applied and I was really interested to understand how does licensing translate when you go to fashion, how is it different than media and properties and shows and entertainment? So that's what drew me over there. It was a friend was like, "Hey, just want to put on your radar, they're looking." Because everyone loved Kate Spade and we were all obsessed with the brand. And so I went and I interviewed and the woman at the time, who then became my boss, was like, "You're a little bit more senior." And I was like, "I'm willing to take a step back," because I was so interested in finding out what it was like, how is it different and could I go this way?
And they built out a little bit of a broader job. In hindsight, they were readying themselves I think to potentially be sold. And so I joined and was very fortunate that Kate and Andy were still very much in the business running the show with their two partners. And that first three years of what would become a ten-year career at Kate Spade was with the owner/founders. And for me, that really sparked and then solidified that this is my jam, this is my environment.
Johanna Almstead:
And so different than Viacom, MTV, right?
Tricia Whalen:
Corporate.
Johanna Almstead:
So different. And I think it's funny because that's become, I didn't say it in your intro, but you have this special skill set that is often coming into a brand that is still run by its founders and then helping it scale and grow, which we'll talk about a lot more. But I think that's interesting that originally, that was barked right from there.
Tricia Whalen:
That's where it originated for sure. And of course you don't know at the time and you have a lot of nervous nature about it, but really the reason I felt like it was time to leave MTV was because it was feeling corporate. It was like 17 people were now making decisions. And I always talked about the red tape and the layers and I was like, this is getting, I was having an aversion to it. And when I got to Kate Spade, this was a brand that was very creative led. Andy is definitely one of, I consider, the foremost creative directors in the business. And I loved everything they put out for the brand and I wanted to be a part of that world. And I was really excited to be like, what am I going to learn here? And it was a very interesting place.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes, I think it's interesting to point out, too, because I think a lot of people might not know this about the brand and might not know the differentiation of it, but Kate Spade originally was run by Kate and her husband, Andy,. Andy was an in-house creative director from a marketing standpoint. So most brands go and hire outside agencies or might hire somebody who they're not married to run the creative marketing, which means the ad campaigns and now it's the websites and their social media and everything falls under the visual identity of the brand and the look and feel and all of that. But that was actually happening from Kate's husband in the business.
Tricia Whalen:
He came from an agency background and then he, so he started the business with her and his role was to be that creative agency. And what was interesting about the way that they set up having been to other companies after, is they really set the business up where Kate was doing all of the product design direction and then Andy was running what was an in-house creative agency. And that's what's odd. Don't you remember coming out of Kate, people thought that was strange that there was a creative director, but that's different. I still have to explain, product design and creative design are two different things.
Johanna Almstead:
Two different things, two different jobs, two different people.
Tricia Whalen:
Two different capabilities.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Tricia Whalen:
Very different capabilities. So the unique setup of that, I feel appreciative that I saw it because it reinforced how important brand is, not just the business of selling goods, but how do you create a brand with longevity. And as someone who is coming from licensing where it's like the whole value is the brand. If you want to license and make a lot of money off that model, you have to have a rock solid, highly admired with longevity brand established.
Johanna Almstead:
Because you're giving people every opportunity to buy into that brand.
Tricia Whalen:
You're selling that.
Johanna Almstead:
So they might not be able to afford a Kate Spade handbag, but they could buy a pair of sunglasses or they could buy a lipstick.
Tricia Whalen:
Stationery.
Johanna Almstead:
Or they could buy a stationery or they could buy whatever.
Tricia Whalen:
Or a wallet.
Johanna Almstead:
And so the stationery is just the stationery without the brand. So you stayed at Kate Spade for 10 years?
Tricia Whalen:
10 years, which is wild, right?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Tricia Whalen:
But yes, it was almost like two chapters. I think the first three years were Kate and Andy, founder led, entrepreneurial environment, very creative, not that business wasn't important, but definitely wasn't the forefront. And then when they sold to a strategic, which was Liz Claiborne at the time, we became, then, a brand within their portfolio. And so there were so many people that were jumping ship because of the assumption that Liz Claiborne purchasing Kate Spade, where's that going to go? Because they're two different extremes, highly creative, maybe a little bit more modest and had been around for a while. I think we were fortunate that the CEO of the strategic at the time, it left us to our own devices because there were other brands in the portfolio of Juicy always comes up where they were getting much more attention because they were bigger or they were throwing off more what have you.
And so in that time, the next seven years was a different chapter where what you said earlier, we were all relying on each other to work together intentionally, strategically to build, now, what was like Kate Spade 2.0.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. And weirdly, we had that space and time to do that because of those other priorities of the parent company at the time.
Tricia Whalen:
Yep.
Johanna Almstead:
I think that, that's really rare, but it is a good lesson for people who are like if you're working in a brand that gets acquired, maybe don't jump ship until you know what really is happening because it might be okay.
Tricia Whalen:
It was definitely a pinnacle point for me and my career and I give credit to my brother, Michael, and I don't give my brothers a lot of credit on purpose, but if I had to give credit, this is one where he was like, I was telling him that a lot of the OGs from the first round, they were all leaving and he was like, I think it'd be interesting for you to stay, and the reason is you're a brand person and you develop brand, so it'll be interesting for you to learn with a merger and an acquisition. When that happens, can you continue the brand or what mistakes do people make which, then, leads the brand down a negative path?
Johanna Almstead:
Right, that's really good advice.
Tricia Whalen:
And so I think about that conversation, and I stayed in it and definitely felt awkward when a lot of you guys came in because I was a lifer and we have a fellow other, Dina was a lifer and we were trying to navigate these new people coming in with all these new ideas. But I think the one thing that I appreciated is that I was often looked as the old guard.
Johanna Almstead:
You were the experts, though. You were the experts in the brand.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah, it was like, is this too little, or does this make sense? Or I even remember the chief creative officer, we had gone to a meeting with one of the partners and she had her Prada bag and I was like, oh, no, no, no. And that was the body nature of me being like, "Nope, it has to be a Kate Spade bag. Just take mine. You are the brand." And that was just because Ralph Lauren was like this, too. They instilled brand integrity and that's what I learned in those early years.
Johanna Almstead:
And you lived and you wore that brand, you lived that brand.
Tricia Whalen:
You had to write in all lowercase, you had to use Baskerville. I remember in the early years of Kate Spade, it was my first year and they were doing Christmas card send out and I used the automated postage machine and threw it in the basket and someone was like, "Dude," and grabbed them and was like, "Absolutely not. It has to be a hand postage stamp." And I was like, "Oh, my god." So I feel like while difficult to absorb at the time, it really developed this, both Ralph and the Kate Spade experiences, brand integrity, consistency is important, branding is just as important as the business. Developing the brand is just as important as developing the business. And so it was really, I'm lucky that I got that pedigree because it's really helped me as I've continued on.
Johanna Almstead:
I think about that with Ralph, also, because I worked at Ralph, as well, and I remember. So I remember just always you walk into those offices and they're like, you feel like you're in a mansion and they're just absolutely gorgeous. And the giant silver footed bowl of M&Ms. Were those there when you were there?
Tricia Whalen:
They were there. I worked across the street from the mansion, so I was over there a lot, and that was something to assume.
Johanna Almstead:
That was fancy. And I remember walking into a meeting one time and there was a colleague that I hadn't met yet. It was new, it was my first week. And then he walks in, he's fully in jodhpurs and a pink polo with a neckerchief and some groovy antiquey looking weird boots. And I was like, wait, what? This is a straight man who's walking into this office dressed like this. And it was, he was straight out of an ad campaign and you really saw that, that brand was eat, sleep, and breathe it and you immersed yourself in it and you created this, or Ralph created this entire subculture that if you worked there, you were part of.
Tricia Whalen:
When I did the internship with my sister-in-law, they sent me over to the mansion to get wardrobed. And so let me be clear, as a youngest of five children, we didn't have a lot of money. And so my mom was so proud that I had gotten this internship. So then she was like, "Here, take my credit card, whatever that wardrobing thing they're talking about." And I go over there and the gal sets me up, it's like the twin sweater set and it goes with this short, but also these pants and so you can intermix it and now these three outfits you can wear the whole day, because you had to be head to toe Ralph when you worked there, even as an intern. And so I took it and I put it in my navy blue Ralph shopping bag and I got on the Long Island Railroad to head home and it just so happened to be a rainy day.
So when I got home, I went to unpack to show my mom, here's a thousand dollars on clothes. She must have had a heart attack internally, but the worst part is I take them out of the tissue. There's navy ink, it had run all over the clothes from the shopping bag that I put on the floor. Rookie move.
Johanna Almstead:
Rookie move.
Tricia Whalen:
At 19, though. Who knew?
Johanna Almstead:
You probably never had stuff that was that expensive, either.
Tricia Whalen:
Yes, I was so nervous and excited and I was like, ah, just put it down on the floor and make room for the commuters. Anyway, there was dye and I was like, oh my god. My mom was like, I mean it was fine. Obviously they fixed it and gave me all new stuff. But yes, that whole immersion thing was a real thing. And even a kid was all lower cases.
Johanna Almstead:
They made you buy it, though?
Tricia Whalen:
They gave you a heavily discount. They gave you an allowance, so they paid for a portion of it and then it was just a matter of how many pieces are you going to need to get through the summer, right?
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my gosh. Yeah, you had to wear head to toe every day.
Tricia Whalen:
And my sister-in gave me stuff, too.
Johanna Almstead:
I remember wearing, I worked in the men's PR office for a while and we would get samples that were always, they were gorgeous cashmere sweaters, but they were the samples that had to go through customs and they would have a cut up back or a hole or whatever. I was like, yeah, I'll just wear these men's sweaters. Not a problem. Just like an $800 cashmere sweater, I'll just tuck it in the back.
Tricia Whalen:
Or I used to buy the kids' clothes because it was less expensive and I was tiny anyway, so I'd be like, oh, I'll just buy this boy's size 14 sweater.
Johanna Almstead:
Totally. Okay, so you stayed at Kate Spade for 10 years.
Tricia Whalen:
10 years.
Johanna Almstead:
That's wild. But a lot happened in those 10 years. You had children, you got married.
Tricia Whalen:
I started dating and right before you guys all came in 2007. And then I got married in 2009 and had Emmett in 2009, too.
Johanna Almstead:
You did?
Tricia Whalen:
Yep. I found out I was pregnant literally three weeks before my wedding.
Johanna Almstead:
Shut down.
Tricia Whalen:
And I had to go through the wedding with my husband and I was like, "I'll have the white wine spritzer." And I was irritable and it rained and it was like, now, in hindsight, everyone's like, ah. But at the time, yeah, so I got engaged and all you guys came in or I started dating and then it was I got married, then I had my first kid, and then I had my second kid still there. And yeah, god, I remember being pregnant in the office.
Johanna Almstead:
Waddling through the hall.
Tricia Whalen:
But there were so many of us, too, that were of that same age. So we were pregnant at the same time. Also helpful, but also, yeah, waddling. My kids were 10 pound babies, both. And I remember getting on the platform of the train walking up, getting into the city. If only we had worked from home advantage then.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, gosh.
Tricia Whalen:
Because when I think about it, it's like why was I doing all that? That seems like a lot.
Johanna Almstead:
Because we just did. There wasn't a choice. We just did. And I think about that all the time now when I see, well, also how I've gotten so lazy about my own life and getting out of my own house. I work from home most of the time and I'm like, I cannot believe that I used to get dolled up every day, showered, hair blown out, full on makeup, heels, cocktail dress, often, heels, and to a job and did that all while pregnant, as well. Sometimes six days a week, five days a week, often right off a flight from some crazy place, and we just never fucking stopped.
Tricia Whalen:
We didn't question it. I stayed in the city, it would be like snow, I guess I'll just find a hotel room. What? It's so bizarre.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah, and I think about my niece now in her early twenties, and if I tell her stuff like that, she just doesn't, she's like, what? It doesn't even register.
Johanna Almstead:
No. They're like, what insanity. It's thinking about our parents smoking with the windows shut in a car. It's they just don't even, it's like, why would you work like that? Why would you do that?
Tricia Whalen:
And of course in Covid when it stopped, ever since then I've been like, I would never go back and I have changed jobs since Kate, a few different places. And then I've relocated to Florida and I think about it because people are always like, "Are you going to move back?" And I'm like, I almost don't want to because I don't want to feel that pull of someone being like, "Come into the city." It's like I can't do it anymore. I did it for 20 years. I'm done. And how much time in your day? It was like a two-hour pull from my day, at least, at minimum. God help you if you got delayed and you'd be sitting on that train, just want to be home.
Johanna Almstead:
Totally. And it's also, I've talked about this with a couple other guests, but you have kids now who are old enough to notice when you're not around and need you. And I think it's, you think about that time that you missed when you were on that train or working all the time and it's like it's really hard and you have to be around more.
Tricia Whalen:
I don't know if they would know how to deal with it. I don't think that would go down well. You know what I mean?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. When I'm not around now, they're like, what is happening? Where are you? And I'm like, right, okay. Can we talk about this a little bit? Because you have a husband who you guys decided early on where you were going to grow your career and bust your ass and go, go, go, and he was going to slow down and be around the kids and help raise the kids at home. I think that's a, weirdly, it was a very common dynamic at Kate Spade, which is so bizarre. There were so many women who were the breadwinners in the family and whose husbands had the flexibility or they made that decision or whatever. But can you talk about that and what that has meant for your career, what that has meant for your marriage, what sacrifices you've had to make?
Tricia Whalen:
I was still at Kate Spade when that infamous conversation with me and my husband happened. My husband had always been in sales. He can sell paper to a tree and he was a go-go-go hustler, and he owned a business and marketing and then he was moving on to the next thing. And it was when I was rising a little bit through the ranks of Kate and we had just had Emmett, possibly Oliver, and it was really about that conflict was happening where it's I-
Johanna Almstead:
The tug, the tug.
Tricia Whalen:
It really was more like it comes down to that day the kid gets sick. It's like who's staying home?
Johanna Almstead:
Who's getting the call and who's staying home?
Tricia Whalen:
And for our relationship, it can be very frictionist because it's like who's more important? And I think because-
Johanna Almstead:
Or whose job is more important?
Tricia Whalen:
Correct. And because I was commuting, I had an advantage because I have to be in this location, whereas Eddie was on Long Island, so it started by as most, as a little bit. And then when my job started to get intense and I had moved off of licensing and now I was developing businesses for the brand internally and rallying people and talking to people in Asia and hours were murky, at best. And I just felt like I had to be there because I was pushing myself to get to the next level. And so I remember my husband actually said to me, we were sitting outside at our place at the time and he was like, "I think you should do this." Because I was like, "Am I doing the right thing? Should I bail on this? Get a different job?" And he was like, "I think you should do this because I do think that you have more of a trajectory in front of you based on if we just look at our experience right now and I think that you should pursue it and I will be parent number one." And that didn't mean he had to quit his job. It was just like, we don't have to fight about who's staying home any more.
Johanna Almstead:
Who's going to be the default one?
Tricia Whalen:
It's now, it's you. And he had to take the kids to the doctor and when you talk about the sacrifice, it was giving that up a lot of, I'm not the person that's in the doctor's office while he's getting a shot. Thank god, by the way, not cut out for that.
Johanna Almstead:
Well also, it's giving up a lot of control, too.
Tricia Whalen:
And that was really tricky just by nature I think I like to feel control even if I'm not in control, I like to feel stable. And so I think there was a lot of years where I had to graciously, now we have Mel Robbins books, let them, thanks.
Johanna Almstead:
Let them, I know.
Tricia Whalen:
But essentially, we were living it, figuring it out.
Johanna Almstead:
You needed that 20 years ago.
Tricia Whalen:
Yes, and I do feel like those years where it was hard for me to just be like, he's not doing it the way I would do it. And I think because women's instincts are nurturing, to nurture, there's a lot of things that happen in parenting. It's why you have two parents because they hopefully bring two different things to the, and I think so that would be what would spur the guilt is are they being nurtured enough or?
Johanna Almstead:
Are they being cuddled enough?
Tricia Whalen:
Because when they're sick, right? Oh, am I even the worst mom? Because I just got on a train. But I think I was also supported by women around me going through the same thing, thank God, who were saying things like, "Well you're here, it's 45 minutes since you left." I'm like, how do you feel now? And it was like, "Well, I feel a little bit better." And it was like, just keep going with that feeling. It was like don't go back.
Johanna Almstead:
Right, just get through the day.
Tricia Whalen:
Just keep going. And then realizing in hindsight it is okay, he is going to be okay. Eddie always jokes, "I just have to make sure as long as I don't kill them, I'm okay." And I was like, if that's the bar, that's scary. But I know he is joking. But I think that it is a little bit of what I had to tell myself. It doesn't have to be your way, it doesn't have to look your way. As long as you're raising good humans, they're fine. Easier to say now.
Johanna Almstead:
Right, and it's hard to know. I think it's easier. I was going to say it's probably easier to say that now.
Tricia Whalen:
It's easier to say that now.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm still, the jury's still out, I feel like, for mine because they're still really young.
Tricia Whalen:
Awe, that's not nice.
Johanna Almstead:
And it's like, you hope that they're good, but I'm still in it, and so the tug is still really there and I'm still like, I could still fuck them up. I could still mess them up right now.
Tricia Whalen:
You know what someone said to me, though? I love your girls and I know they're good eggs, so I'm not worried about that, plus I know your husband, too, and he's also a good egg, so I'm not worried about your children being good eggs. They're definitely going to be good eggs. I also feel like somewhat, a friend of mine, where I struggled more was in Long Island where I lived, there wasn't a lot of me.
Johanna Almstead:
Right, there were not a lot of moms commuting.
Tricia Whalen:
That was hard, too, it was all these moms who had met on walking to the school or the bus stop. I didn't have that.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Tricia Whalen:
And when I moved to Florida it was even more because it's like there's a lot of schooling down here was just different. And there's a lot of private school options and everyone's driving there and so there's not as much school events and stuff. And a lot of the people here, when we moved here, they had already gone through those years. Now my kids were middle school, high school, so that kind of went away. And I remember a friend of mine back in Long Island when I was still in this conflictive, I got to let go of control time. It doesn't make me a bad person that I'm career parent, what have you. And she said, "I think it's easier because you have boys, too."
Johanna Almstead:
I was actually going to ask you that.
Tricia Whalen:
She definitely was like, "I wonder if you had girls, it would be as easy for you to step away?" Because you do, girls need. I wouldn't know. I don't have girls, I never had a sister. I live with another four kids, I'm sorry, my husband and three kids. It's just like men, men, men all the time.
Johanna Almstead:
And you're like, you know what? Maybe you guys can all take care of yourself, I'm going to go get on the train.
Tricia Whalen:
Right, but every girl trip I'm like, I'm in, twice. So I do feel like it was an interesting observation that she had that she was like, "I wonder if it's easier because it's boys," or maybe she was just trying to make me feel better.
Johanna Almstead:
I don't know. I think she's right, though. I'm a mom of girls and-
Tricia Whalen:
The tug.
Johanna Almstead:
The tug is real and the judgment of my husband and how he responds to them because they're girls. My response because they're girls probably. I'm like, you can't talk to a girl like that. No, I'm very controlling and I'm very judgy about it. And I do think it probably, I don't know, I don't know if it'd be any easier if they're boys, but I can see that, that would be an argument to be made, for sure.
Tricia Whalen:
I think that again, I want to say that arch of learning to let go, that arch of this transition without a lot of supporting characters. With the exception of at work, we had the supporting characters, but maybe my everyday life, I didn't have. My mom was not. My mom raised our family, but what was cool, in hindsight, is that my mom always had a side hustle.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Tricia Whalen:
And I think it was just a matter of my mom needed something for herself and it was her stuffing envelopes for an insurance company and she's like, "Now run this box in," that was it. Or she babysat other kids in the neighborhood, she always, I think she felt the need to contribute financially because there were so many of us. But also I think she probably wanted something for herself. She had jobs before she had the five children and so she had savvy nature, she was like a stenographer and knew how to do shorthand and stuff, you know what I mean?
Johanna Almstead:
No way.
Tricia Whalen:
So she had talent to give. And I think that after I got over that arch of being like maybe I'm part of a smaller pool of people, I also realized it's not quantity of the time you spend with your kids, it's is the quality of the time you're spending with them, are you leaning into that? And my mom always gave me that kudos of, "I watch you and you definitely lean in when you are present." So did my boys benefit because I figured out that, where it's really about when you are with them, making sure that you're fully present, engaging, being nurturing, doing all the things that you worry you're not doing when you're not there. Is it really about the amount of times you do that or is it about being consistent and doing it when you are together?
Johanna Almstead:
And hopefully setting an example for them as young men to get that having a strong mom and a working mom and a successful mom is a cool thing.
Tricia Whalen:
Juries out on the younger one.
Johanna Almstead:
And I'm respectful when-
Tricia Whalen:
I don't know if they respecting that.
Johanna Almstead:
They're still not into it?
Tricia Whalen:
The older one gets it, but the other two are like, eh, they'll learn.
Johanna Almstead:
She's all right.
Tricia Whalen:
They'll come around.
Johanna Almstead:
They'll come around. I think there is something about, I don't know, when you meet men who were raised by working moms, they're different.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah, I hope so in a positive way.
Johanna Almstead:
Totally in a positive way.
So I want to talk a little bit about sort of an intense moment just because it was something you and I shared, but you were at Kate Spade, you were running the business development situation there. You were working your ass off, you were traveling, you were raising three boys, you were managing marriage, life, commute, all of it, and your father had recently passed away and you were in a meeting. I remember this because I happened to be outside of the meeting. You were in a meeting with some very high level executives at our company and something went down in that meeting and you busted out of the door and just were having a moment. You left the room and I happened to be right outside that room and I followed you into the bathroom into a little tiny bathroom because I could see that you were upset and I was worried about you.
We had a emotional moment in there and we had a chat that I think put a lot in perspective for both of us at that time in our lives and our career. So can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think it had an impact on both of us.
Tricia Whalen:
My youngest was two years old, so I remember being in the boardroom at Kate's Spade when we would have, whether it was weekly or monthly, we'd have these, everyone was around the table, cross channel telling what's going on, and it was at an intense time in my career in that I was given this new responsibility and was leading the charge and getting comfortable with being at a table and talking about things like that and having a little imposter syndrome. And I remember my dad had been sick starting in September, and this was around May, so it wasn't even a full year where he was in and out of the hospital. They couldn't figure out what's wrong with him. Then it was like maybe he's a transplant need. And my dad was a very big man of faith, so it was for him, the idea of taking an organ from someone else who might be younger and more vibrant and might need it more. It was, he was like, no.
And so then we were just trying to get through and hope that this thing turned around and I got the call and I had to leave that meeting and I just was like, "I have to go." And I remember I was walking to the train with my Lenny's sandwich and then I was like, what am I doing? And I threw it in the garbage and I started running in my heels to the train and got home, and my dad passed away that night. And so even though he was sick and for the last, call it four months, I had been going home and visiting him in the hospital and then he would be out and he'd be fine again and all the things. It was a little bit shocking and it's your parent.
Johanna Almstead:
I think it's shocking, even if they are sick for a long time, even if you know it's coming, it's still shocking.
Tricia Whalen:
And it's interesting because when my mom passed, it was spontaneous. So we are two different scenarios, but anyway, as your parent passes, you just don't expect it. He was 70. So I definitely went into this mode of I'm fine. I was there when he died, I'm all good. I stayed with him overnight. I played my wedding song for him, even though he was not really with me, but I talked to him all night and I was there for it. And I also got to see him pass quietly and it wasn't scary or whatever. Someone who needs closure and control, I had it. And then I went right back to work and.
Johanna Almstead:
Right back to mothering, also.
Tricia Whalen:
I feel like god, Joe, do we remember when that was? As I went right back to work because I was fine and everyone was like, "Oh my god." And I was like, "I'm fine, I'm fine. I was there. I was there." So practical Patty showed up and she was all like, and-
Johanna Almstead:
We're here. We're going to get through it.
Tricia Whalen:
I went right back to my big job and I was in that fragrance meeting and it was like the comment was just, it wasn't for me, but it just triggered me that I was like F this. And I think it was because I really hadn't grieved because I forced myself in. And so then I went scurrying to the bathroom, or the crying room, as we called it. And you showed up and I hyperventilating. You're like, "Water, take some water." And I remember you said, "You have the trade show. You have to go, and Sweden, so just go."
Johanna Almstead:
Switzerland.
Tricia Whalen:
Switzerland, where the watches are made. It was a watch business. And you were like, "Why don't you take some time when you're there to just be by yourself and walk around and don't take that first flight out, take the last flight out and be." And it was really great advice and it was exactly what I needed at the time because I did just that and I remember it. I remember walking around and being like, god, this looks like Willy Wonka here. It's super cool. And look at the way these Europeans are sitting at a table casually smoking, having glass of wine. I belong here, this is where I should be.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm never coming back, actually.
Tricia Whalen:
I definitely think about it often that I'm like, I think I'm supposed to be in Europe, I think that's. So I do, I really, it is a core memory of mine. That whole hyperventilation, you handing me the water and then just giving me that advice of just like stop. Just stop. Give yourself a minute.
Johanna Almstead:
Because we weren't stopping. We literally weren't even stopping for death. Things were happening and we were never stopping.
Tricia Whalen:
We were in it.
Johanna Almstead:
I don't even know if I ever stopped until maybe I gave birth and I had to stop. But I think it was so easy to say it to you, but I wasn't doing it myself either. But I think about that now and I think about, I remember actually when my father passed, I was working as a pretty much a full-time consultant for a brand and super intense work environment. But the founder of that brand, it was similar. My dad was sick and was in and out of hospitals and stuff, but we knew it was happening. We knew we were towards the end and I called her to talk to her about it and she's like, "Do not think about this company. Go through this process with your father." And I was like, what? I was like, my mind was blown. She's like, "Don't think about me. Don't think about this company. Don't think about work. Don't pick up your phone, don't pick up your emails. Just go and be present through the process of your dad dying."
It was mind-blowing to me that somebody would say that to me and I needed to hear it. I wasn't strong enough to do that myself. I wasn't protective of myself enough to say, you know what? My dad's going through this, I'm going to take the next, however many weeks this takes, off. I couldn't do it. And it was her granting me permission to do that was huge. And I think about that now and I'm like, god, we really didn't grant ourselves those moments.
Tricia Whalen:
Did this founder have someone pass, do you know?
Johanna Almstead:
I assume she did. Her parents were still alive, so I know it wasn't her parent, but she was very family oriented, very, very close with her parents, very close with her father, in particular, I think, so I think maybe she just-
Tricia Whalen:
A little transference there.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, she just put herself in my shoes. I don't know. But it was really important and it was such a game changing moment for me that I actually was like, oh, okay, I'm going to, yes, yes ma'am. Okay, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to be a good employee and I'm going to do what you told me to do. And that's, I didn't have that instinct myself to do it for myself, which I think is now, I try to do for my own teams, whoever's working for me, I try to do that. But it definitely was a learning curve and that was only a few years ago.
Tricia Whalen:
I think you telling me was exactly what I needed to hear at that time. And I think it actually really started the grieving process for me because that triggering what I've now learned, having lost a parent of what I consider a young age, probably because I had kids and I had grown up with my grandparents. They lived to 93 and 103 and my grandmother who I talked about was a huge portion of my life. And so you just always think, well, that's how it's going to go for my kids. And so I feel like when we had that conversation and I took you up on that advice and I did that for myself, it actually started the grieving process, and I guess the grieving process started when I got triggered in that meeting.
And one of the things I really have learned in going through that at a younger age is it's a different side. And I don't know if you feel this with your dad, but I can't explain it to anyone. And I try with my husband all the time, I'm like, "I just don't know how to extend this to you." But you'd look at life so different. It's like black and white color TV. And I don't want to say cliche, don't sweat the small stuff, but you just start to realize life is really short and you start to live your, at least I felt like I was living my life then with that filter and it pops up in my brain all the time when I'm making decisions. So I do think that one of the sticking things from that experience was that it's taught me to filter differently. And it is with the filter of life is very short.
So I appreciate your founder friend saying to you, "Take the time." That's why I'm like, I wonder if she had gone through that mirror like I'm talking about, to be on the other side, you realize you can't get it back.
Johanna Almstead:
You can't get it back. And I don't know, for me, there were certain things that I stopped myself from doing because I was afraid of certain judgment from my dad, for instance, that I was like, well, now's the time. I don't have to worry about that anymore. This is a different era in my life and I have different priorities.
What do you want your kids to know about you now around this time? Because you were saying how the younger ones are still like, oh, the jury's still out. I'm not sure if she's cool or not. What do you want them to know about life and this time and what this has meant?
Tricia Whalen:
I hope that they realize that I did it for them. That's really important. I talked to my husband about that a lot. It's not for me, this isn't a selfish journey or crusade that I'm onto. I love what I do, don't get me wrong, but I think that I did it because I wanted to give my kids a better life than I had, I think, which is very normal. And so I hope my kids realize because there's going to be examples that'll come up in therapy or it's some Thanksgiving dinner table in the future where-
Johanna Almstead:
You weren't at my soccer game.
Tricia Whalen:
Or I abandoned something or I didn't do something in the way that they thought of because we all think of our parents that way. So I just hope that what they retain that even though mom worked really hard, even though mom relocated us to Florida for her career, all the things, that I did it with a positive intent and that it was in support of being able to give them the things and have them have the opportunities that I want them to have, not feel bounded at all.
Johanna Almstead:
So now you're at E. Frances.
Tricia Whalen:
[inaudible 00:56:02].
Johanna Almstead:
Which is such a beautiful brand.
Tricia Whalen:
It is.
Johanna Almstead:
It's so sweet. It makes me so happy.
Tricia Whalen:
I am definitely drawn, I've learned this about myself. And again, interviewing is a really interesting journey because you reflect on what you've learned and then also, especially when you're in your forties, you're like, what do I want? I get to choose a little bit of where I go. And so I think two years ago when I first started interviewing, I was coming off five years at Rifle, I had worked for a husband and wife, so similar to Kate and Andy, another husband and wife, and had really helped them accelerate the growth of the brand. And this was my first experience being the lead executive president than CEO. And it was such an interesting, I'm so grateful for the opportunity because I got to be exposed to a lot that I wasn't before and I got to learn on the job more. And then we sold the company. So that was another star of a thing that I didn't anticipate when I got there that I was fortunate enough to go through that which is helping me in terms of my next career steps. And when I came out of five years of that, you feel like it's a lot. It's like coming off 10 years at Kate, you have to give yourself a minute. It's like anything. Give yourself a minute.
Johanna Almstead:
It's like a relationship.
Tricia Whalen:
And in interviewing what it teaches you, too, as now, this was my 1, 2, 3, it was my fifth brand, founder led brand, and when I started looking, I always look for brands that I believe have good bones. So is there something here, however small or large, is there something here that has longevity even if it has to be molded into something. And then number two is very quickly, who are the people? Who are the founders or who are the active people? Those are the two things I really look for, and I was very, very fortunate that I had been interviewing. I converted to, I'm going to consult.
I was in New York City randomly after a girl's trip in Newport, Rhode Island, and first time ever in Newport and I went to this trade show the next day, I forced myself to go, because I was tired, and I went and I met one of the founders of E. Frances, and I was like, "Where are you guys located?" And they were like, "Newport," and I was like, oh my god. Weird fate that I just experienced that town, that charmingness of that town, and it's just a brand about, honestly, fostering people to connect. I'm going to go back to, I think the reason I dug in was because I think, again, it's missing or I feel like right now this world we're living in is not fostering connection, real human connection, making it a priority. And so I think that's what really drew me in. That, and then it's now three women, so I've moved on from the husband and wife situation, not that it's any less dysfunctional people.
Johanna Almstead:
I was going to say, I'm sure that's way less complicated.
Tricia Whalen:
Three female leaders, relatively in age to me, so mature, know what they want, and strong New Englanders, which I love, Northeasterners. And I get to go to Newport once a month, which I adore because it's just a great little spot to be in.
Johanna Almstead:
What's the best part of your job?
Tricia Whalen:
Building. I love building. I think I am personally, professionally, I'm driven by progress.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Tricia Whalen:
I'm feeling like something is moving forward. I would hate to be the hamster in the wheel. I would never be a cog in a wheel. I can't. I think I learned that coming out of Viacom then going to founder-led, founder-led. I like building something, and also I'm attracted to emotional brands that have an emotional connection as unemotional as I say I am or my first chapter is definitely going to be filter out the emotion. It's something I have learned in my life. I am attracted to emotional brands that have the ability to story tell and I love building that out because I think the world needs it.
Johanna Almstead:
I'd like to meet the person that accuses you of being unemotional. Just saying.
Tricia Whalen:
I'm always saying filter out the emotion. And they're like, "No, it's not that you're not emotional, Tricia. Just passionate."
Johanna Almstead:
Enthusiastic.
Tricia Whalen:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
Passionate. What's the worst part of your job?
Tricia Whalen:
It's exhausting. No, it is a little bit. I think when you work in smaller teams or usually the brands, at least the founder-led brands I've been in, they're not overly capitalized. So you have to work with what you got in terms of limited resources and people or capital. You often inherit an old guard of people. As you said at the beginning, people don't love change and I come in as the change agent.
Johanna Almstead:
That can be scary.
Tricia Whalen:
As much as the founders invite me in, not everyone absorbs you and that's hard and that takes work and persistence and grit to be like, it's okay, it's not personal, they're just going through that cycle and it is what it is. And then it's also managing the founders through that change, as well.
Johanna Almstead:
Because sometimes founders think they want change, but then they are uncomfortable with it in the process, right?
Tricia Whalen:
Correct. It's like why keep coming? It's just at the root. No one loves change. There's very few of us that love the change and I feel like also, they have what's in their mind, and so you have to battle with them a little bit. And often, I'm the one coming in with experience, so you have to be able to build trust and sometimes it takes a little bit longer. You can't accelerate time, so then, therefore, you can't accelerate trust because that is a part of building trust, and fortunately I have good people around me who remind me this is a marathon, it's not a sprint. When you're with these smaller companies, you're helping them build, it's block and tackle. It's like do what you can today and then let it go if you can't push that over the hill today. And sometimes that goes against my grain to want to progress it and be like, no, I know this is what we need to do. But you have to be sensitive and empathetic.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, you have to cultivate a different kind of patience, too, right?
Tricia Whalen:
And say it's going to be okay and maybe we have to have a few more conversations about it, even though I know this is the answer, or from my experience. So I think that part, it can be mentally exhausting.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I feel like that also might be hard coming from a company like when we were at Kate, yes, in the beginning it was that sort of pace, but then we got into such a crazy pace of growth. So for probably the last five years of your life there, you didn't have to be that patient. In fact, you couldn't be that patient. You just had to go, and grow, grow, and push.
Tricia Whalen:
Right, and this is the antithesis of this. When you're in the starting point or small [inaudible 01:02:18]-
Johanna Almstead:
Right, you have to reverse, neutral. Hang on a second.
Tricia Whalen:
But do you know, Joe? I also think it really helps me be successful because I am empathetic to, I don't remember that. What I talked about before when we went through where you guys were coming in and it was like the old guard was smaller at Kate's, but it taught me to be like, absorb, don't fight. And so that transitional period where change starts to take hold, I'm very sensitive because I am you, I was there. I sat in that seat where I was like, why are we doing all these things like this now? So I understand it and that, I think, helps me be more successful in it.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, for sure. What is something you once believed about yourself that you've since outgrown?
Tricia Whalen:
Oh, I would say I'm not good enough. I think I, those who know me wouldn't say I lack confidence. And I think if I look at my younger self, I would've said I struggled with confidence. Again, going back to childhood and the form with which I grew up in and I think I built that over time. And as I got older and wiser and I feel like that's something that I think that I can, I can do it. You can do it. Have confidence in yourself.
Johanna Almstead:
And not ingrained in you, you have that experience. Yeah. Is there anything that you've said no to that you wish you said yes to?
Tricia Whalen:
Not really.
Johanna Almstead:
That's good. That's a good place to be in life.
Tricia Whalen:
I think it was more inverto, Where things have happened to me where I'm caught off guard and it wasn't my decision more that than one that was in my decision that I didn't think I would recover from, that I've learned things happen for a reason, though you may not feel it immediately when things happen to you that you regret or would have said no to. There's a new chapter on the other side and it's cool because then you get to see, oh my god, had I not gone through that, even though it wasn't in my control, even though I wasn't the person saying no to it, when something like that gets applied to me, it's like I've lived through a couple of those scenarios where it's like you get through it and you're like, there's always a better opportunity, you just don't see it in that moment.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. Are there any moments in your life where you think, wow, if I hadn't done this, any big decisions you made or any steps you took? If you hadn't done this, holy shit, my life would've turned out real differently.
Tricia Whalen:
Oh, for sure. I have one all the way back to almost getting engaged and being a teacher and no disparagement. My dad was a teacher for 35 years. I have the utmost respect, but what a different path that would've been. And I was serious and looking and it was only that I was broken up with that, that path was not taken and thank god.
Johanna Almstead:
Right, dodged a bullet.
Tricia Whalen:
But I also, yeah, and I have done things like working for Ivanka Trump and being at the Trump organization, now. Back then we weren't even talking about it. He was not the President of the United States, and I had joined four months in, she was like, "My dad's running." And I was like, okay, now what? And I always say, I'll never be thrown as a business developer, I'll never be thrown a curveball like that. But in that experience, I learned so much and so I've learned to just welcome the experiences, bad or good, because it opens up another thing.
Johanna Almstead:
Just buckle up and ride through it as opposed to fighting it.
Tricia Whalen:
I'm not overly faithful. I'm a little bit like everything happens for a reason, I think it's a little self-preservation at times.
Johanna Almstead:
Everything happens for a reason. Everything happens for a reason. Everything happens.
Tricia Whalen:
But I do feel that spiritual, things do, right? You're in my life for a reason, right?
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Tricia Whalen:
I feel very fortunate that maybe there's been enough of the fortunates that I'm like, I don't want to look at the, I wish I could change that because I'm like, I don't think I need to.
Johanna Almstead:
Right, it's all part of the path.
Tricia Whalen:
Had my sister-in not dated my brother, had I not taken the internship at Kate Spade, had I not met the magical crew that came in after, all of that equals up in this journey that's pretty cool.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Okay, so we're going to do our lightning round of silly questions.
Tricia Whalen:
Okay. I'm ready.
Johanna Almstead:
Don't overthink it. You're good at this. You're good at games. I feel like you're good.
Tricia Whalen:
I love a game. I'm a true competitor.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. What is your ultimate comfort food?
Tricia Whalen:
Macaroni and cheese.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, yeah.
Tricia Whalen:
I love macaroni and cheese. I am a connoisseur. I've been to all the different places that have it. Love it.
Johanna Almstead:
Love it.
Tricia Whalen:
And make it.
Johanna Almstead:
Do you put anything in your mac and cheese?
Tricia Whalen:
I don't want to tell you this, but I live in Florida now, so it may make more sense. I make it with Velveeta. Get there.
Johanna Almstead:
Get there. I can get there.
Tricia Whalen:
It's good.
Johanna Almstead:
My husband calls the Velveeta one liquid gold.
Tricia Whalen:
Now my son Emmett makes it, too, and I'm always like, "Don't try and burn it. It's a thing. You have to slowly melt it." But it's just yummy and warm and just, it's that consistency I love.
Johanna Almstead:
I don't think I knew that about you. I don't think I've ever actually seen-
Tricia Whalen:
Carbs. Give me a carb all day.
Johanna Almstead:
Me, too. All the carbs all the time. What did you want to be when you grew up when you were a kid?
Tricia Whalen:
Definitely my mom was pretty good on logging all of our things in the photo albums and when I look back on my kindergarten, I wanted to pump gas, so that's cool.
Johanna Almstead:
Amazing.
Tricia Whalen:
But then by eighth grade I had in my eighth grade yearbook it said, "Performing artist."
Johanna Almstead:
Oh hey, now.
Tricia Whalen:
So not specific, don't block me in.
Johanna Almstead:
No, don't fence me in, man,
Tricia Whalen:
But performance will be a part of my journey.
Johanna Almstead:
This creative spirit cannot be fenced in.
Tricia Whalen:
Totally.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe you have a future as a standup comic.
Tricia Whalen:
I don't know. That's really scary and you have to have a lot of dysfunction in it.
Johanna Almstead:
Or a tap dancer.
Tricia Whalen:
But yeah, I did lead, I was a cheerleader at Madison Square Garden, and I definitely, I can hold a floor, a dance floor, and so.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, you can.
Tricia Whalen:
And by the way, I'm a leader so I have to present all the time. So, kind of came true, performance artist.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe a little jazz hands in your [inaudible 01:08:16].
Tricia Whalen:
Always throw some jazz hands out there.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. What was your first paid job? What was the first thing you ever did that made you [inaudible 01:08:21]?
Tricia Whalen:
Oh, my god, this is so good, Joe. And no one else can say this. So as I mentioned before, we spent our summers in the Hamptons. My dad was a teacher, then principal for 35 years, and then we would just try and take odd jobs. My mom was like, get out of the house, go find work, what have you. And there was a restaurant in South Hampton called The Lobster Inn, and my brother's all worked there, so we had an in, but we were too young to be like bus boys and bus girls, so they allowed us to take the milk crates of all the old beers with the beer sludge and the butts in it, because you could smoke inside bars then, and we would have to sit in the hot sun and take them out of the milk crates, separate them and put all the Amstel Lights in the Amstel Light box and put all the Bud Lights in the Bud Light box. We got paid a quarter a box.
Johanna Almstead:
You were a beer separator?
Tricia Whalen:
I was a recycler before there was recycling.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my god, that's amazing. A quarter a box.
Tricia Whalen:
Quarter of a box. But then you went into South Hampton, you got Fudge Company, let's get some candy. Let's go to the movies.
Johanna Almstead:
There you go. How many boxes did you do a day?
Tricia Whalen:
You would literally stack them and you'd feel so good about yourself and be like, $1.25. Oh, okay.
Johanna Almstead:
Very gratifying work.
Tricia Whalen:
Keep going. I got to come back tomorrow.
Johanna Almstead:
You're like, I made a dollar.
Tricia Whalen:
It's child labor.
Johanna Almstead:
It is child labor
Tricia Whalen:
In a hot sun. We got smart enough where we used to ditch out and be like, screw these guys.
Johanna Almstead:
I got my 5 cents.
Tricia Whalen:
And then they're like, "All right, come in. You can shuck corn now. We'll give you $25 for a bag." And it was like, all right.
Johanna Almstead:
You can sit in the air condition and shuck corn.
Tricia Whalen:
Nope, still had to sit outside. They didn't want that husk anywhere. Plus I got a rash on my hand and my mom's like, "It's good for you. It's good work. That's good."
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, nice work if you can get it. What is something you are really good at other than shucking corn?
Tricia Whalen:
Dancing. I'm really good at dancing.
Johanna Almstead:
You are really good at dancing, I can attest to that.
Tricia Whalen:
It's natural. It's natural.
Johanna Almstead:
It is.
Tricia Whalen:
It's like rhythm. You have to have rhythm and I see it in some of my, I'm so disappointed because I try and get my kids to dance because I'm like, "Eddie, one of them has to have gotten my rhythm, right?" But I'm a little nervous. I'm holding out that the youngest one is just not showing it to me, yet.
Johanna Almstead:
He's just not ready to bust out his skills.
Tricia Whalen:
I feel like Oliver has it in him, but he's just in that awkward, what I'm not dancing, but it's in there. I hope.
Johanna Almstead:
Good things come to those who wait, maybe he's just going to bust out one day.
Tricia Whalen:
Or it'll skip a generation, also. Maybe my grandkids are going to be [inaudible 01:10:44].
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, it could skip a generation.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Your grandkids can cut a rug and they'll dance with grandma because she's going to be cooler, maybe, than her parents.
Tricia Whalen:
I'll probably still be dancing at that age trying to take everyone on.
Johanna Almstead:
I hope so. Don't you hope so?
Tricia Whalen:
I love a dance off. Show me a dance off.
Johanna Almstead:
I want to be dancing.
Tricia Whalen:
I'm getting older where I'm like, I got to stop, but.
Johanna Almstead:
It is true about you. You have a competitive edge on the dance floor. You're into a circle. You like the circle, you like to go in and do dance off.
Tricia Whalen:
I don't love the circle, let's be clear. I actually don't love a circle.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Tricia Whalen:
I don't.
Johanna Almstead:
Really? Okay.
Tricia Whalen:
And I feel like again, competitive edge brothers, that's what happens. We're all playing sports. Then I start to cheerlead professionally as a college player, so then I do that, and then I came out and took that into the world of Kate Spade and showed you guys what a real dance off looks like.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. You're right. You're the expert. No circles. What is something you're really bad at?
Tricia Whalen:
I have a potty mouth. Luckily not bad.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes, you do.
Tricia Whalen:
I curse a lot and I hate it about myself.
Johanna Almstead:
I do, too. I've been doing it. I feel like I broke the seal. I used to be really careful about it around my kids because I was trying to not do it in front of them and I was really disciplined about it. And then now that Tilly is 11 and I feel like she's more of a person and she understands the words and she understands not to use them, I let it rip now to her and I'm like, it's not good.
Tricia Whalen:
When you hear them say it back, you'll start to feel that twinge again. That's happened to me and I'm like, okay, we didn't need to use an F bomb. I turn into to my mother all of a sudden. But I definitely feel like I wish, I guess it's, I'm not bad at it in that I can swear like a sailor, so maybe I'm good at it, but I hate it about me. I wish I could stop myself from.
Johanna Almstead:
You wish you had a better filter.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I use the D bag word a lot to describe somebody because I try not to use it around my kids, but I do find it very useful because I just feel like it's just such a specific type of person, and I thought I was not using it around my kids and we were driving in the car one day and it was both of my kids and a friend of theirs and they're talking about some boy in school until he just goes, "He is such a douche bag." And I was like, oh, my god.
Tricia Whalen:
Yes, but were you proud?
Johanna Almstead:
I was like, "He might be, but we're not going to use that word. Where did you hear that?"
Tricia Whalen:
[inaudible 01:12:51], but sounds like it based on the story you just told.
Johanna Almstead:
Where could you have picked that up? Yeah, that was a bad one. Okay, so you're bad at filtering your curse words. What is your favorite word?
Tricia Whalen:
You know what word I love?
Johanna Almstead:
What?
Tricia Whalen:
Schmatta.
Johanna Almstead:
Schmatta? I love a Schmatta.
Tricia Whalen:
I love Yiddish words so much. My mom used to use Yiddish words randomly. Why? We're Catholic? I don't know, but I love the word Schmatta. I think it hits exactly what I'm trying to say, so that's why I appreciate Yiddish words because they're pretty good at capturing it quickly.
Johanna Almstead:
They're so descriptive.
Tricia Whalen:
Schmatta is like, ugh, that's Schmatta, get that out of here.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, see? No. See, I think Schmatta is something else.
Tricia Whalen:
Okay, so I think it's a crap product. It's like Schmatta. What you think it was?
Johanna Almstead:
A schmatta, in my mind, is a mumu, a summer dress, a Schmatta?
Tricia Whalen:
Oh, no, no. I love a house dress. Oh my god. When are we doing that? Didn't we talk about making those? I'm interested in house dresses coming back, but also, that's not Schmatta. Schmatta is bad material.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, we have to look it up.
Tricia Whalen:
I think it's like garmento terminology, and it's like Schmatta.
Johanna Almstead:
No. Well, maybe you made a house dress out of the Schmatta material. Maybe that's where it came from?
Tricia Whalen:
It could be. Maybe they're probably intertwined when we ChatGPT it, I bet you it's intertwined.
Johanna Almstead:
Schmatta, I can't even, I'm so old, I can't even.
Tricia Whalen:
I know that I use it in the reference of something that's like, that's gross. No, we're not going to do that. That product is bad.
Johanna Almstead:
Schmatta is a Yiddish word that generally refers to a rag, a piece of old worn or ragged clothing or a scrap of fabric. Why did I think it was? I don't know.
Tricia Whalen:
You're talking about a house dress, house dress is made a fabric. You got there eventually.
Johanna Almstead:
I did, but it's schmatta season in the summer. I wonder. Okay. Anyway.
Tricia Whalen:
I wonder if you're thinking schmutz?
Johanna Almstead:
No, schmutz is like schmutz on your face.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah, like schvitzing.
Johanna Almstead:
Schvitzing.
Tricia Whalen:
So many good words. There's got to be a Yiddish dictionary, I have to get on it.
Johanna Almstead:
Did you watch the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel?
Tricia Whalen:
I didn't.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, you have to if only for the language and well, you have to because of so many reasons. The case being connection, Rachel Brosnahan.
Tricia Whalen:
Totally.
Johanna Almstead:
You also have to watch it because the set design and the costume design is amazing, but also because there's so many good Yiddish words.
Tricia Whalen:
Got to get it, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I think Schmatta is said a lot in that show.
Tricia Whalen:
It could unlock my vernacular.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe you're going to be a Yiddish scholar someday. Okay. What's your least favorite word?
Tricia Whalen:
Since we're on the topic, of course. You know what came to my mind? Culottes. I hate that word. My mom used to say clam diggers for short pants.
Johanna Almstead:
Clam diggers, yeah, peddle pushers.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah. I hated when she would say that. I'm like, what? No.
Johanna Almstead:
Culottes.
Tricia Whalen:
Culottes.
Johanna Almstead:
That's amazing.
Tricia Whalen:
Also don't like to wear them, don't like to wear them, don't like to wear them, please don't wear them.
Johanna Almstead:
I can't picture you in culottes.
Tricia Whalen:
Don't bring them back.
Johanna Almstead:
Don't bring them back. Least favorite food? Deal breaker, you will not eat it.
Tricia Whalen:
Any of those chocolate covered grasshopper things. like what? I don't do bugs, period. And that's been really hard for me moving to Florida because a lot of critters down here because it's like the tropics. But you know how in Asia I've traveled there and it's like chocolate covered, and I'm like, why would you ever?
Johanna Almstead:
No, no, thank you.
Tricia Whalen:
So none of that. That's a no.
Johanna Almstead:
I think that's on my no list, as well. Best piece of advice you've ever received?
Tricia Whalen:
I love this one. Actually this is another one. After my father had passed away and I was in therapy with my husband and I started to formulate that it used to be when we would be all together, it was like my mom and dad and Tricia and Winnie, and so there was a square and then all of a sudden with dad gone, it's now a triangle and I felt always in the between my mom and my husband. It got weird for me and I'll never forget, I was working, at the time, I think I was at Ivanka and I was just feeling a lot of pressure to figure out what I was going to do and I was feeling pressure personally, and my therapist was like, "You feel like you're in a pressure cooker, right? And so my best advice to you is stop shopping in stores that don't sell what you need."
And I've taken that and I've given it out because I think it's really, really accurate that sometimes when you're going through a hard time, you'll seek out something, and maybe I was trying to lean too heavily on my husband or trying to get him to be something else with my mom and it's like, stop going there. Just stop.
Johanna Almstead:
Stop barking up the wrong tree.
Tricia Whalen:
Again. I'm like, here we are. Let them, years earlier. But I feel like that was such great advice. Because sometimes you'll go after something and after something and it's like just stop, because that store's not selling. It doesn't mean that Joe's store is in a good store. It's just, she's not selling what I need right now, and it's okay to calibrate around different relationships and.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that.
Tricia Whalen:
It was definitely more for relationships and shop in the store that sells what you have when you need it. So if you don't want tension, don't go to Winnie and Eddie's store. Go over here to Joe's store. You know what I mean?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, totally. That's really good. If your personality were a flavor, what would it be? And I cannot wait to hear this answer.
Tricia Whalen:
Coming off Memorial Day weekend, I would say it's the Rocket Pops that's the jumbo jet star, it's that red, white, and blue. It's good, it's really interesting, it's unique, but it's like, yeah, it's summer's here, you get excited.
Johanna Almstead:
It's a lot. It's just a lot.
Tricia Whalen:
It's a lot. It's a lot. It's like hitting a few different points because you got lemon, you got blue and the red, but it's also the taste of summer. It's like, yes, favorite season.
Johanna Almstead:
That's a good one. Thank you.
Tricia Whalen:
I love that flavor.
Johanna Almstead:
That's so fun. Okay, it's your last supper. You're leaving this body and this earth tomorrow. You're peacing out. What are you eating tonight?
Tricia Whalen:
It's a bacon cheeseburger. It's matched like french fries, it's a Diet Coke and ice lemon straw, preferably with the lid, and then also a shake, a black and white shake. I love a bacon cheeseburger and french fries and I feel so guilty having it, so if I'm dying, I'm just going to do it.
Johanna Almstead:
And no booze?
Tricia Whalen:
I don't think I need it.
Johanna Almstead:
You're just going Diet Coke and a milk shake?
Tricia Whalen:
Maybe I'll throw a Miller Lite over here, but it really is about the Diet Coke, shake, and sip, sip combo.
Johanna Almstead:
Because then you're having a float situation because you're getting this soda.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah, it's a carbonation combo, yeah. It's so good.
Johanna Almstead:
And then the greasy burger. All right.
Tricia Whalen:
I love a cheeseburger.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Have you ever had a moment, I know the answer to this, but I don't know which one it is. Have you ever had a moment in your life when you had to eat your words?
Tricia Whalen:
I'm shocked to hear you say that, Joe. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Can you think of one off the top of your head?
Tricia Whalen:
I went to my nephew's graduation party and I had a few cocktails at this point and I realized it was all our friends and family around us, so I was in a safe place, like a nest, and I started walking around and asking everyone, "Who's the most successful Connolly?"
Johanna Almstead:
Jesus.
Tricia Whalen:
Out of me and my brothers.
Johanna Almstead:
Were all your brothers there?
Tricia Whalen:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
How'd that go?
Tricia Whalen:
They were like, "What is wrong with you?" And so I feel like I have to eat my words because it keeps coming up.
Johanna Almstead:
They're like, remember that time?
Tricia Whalen:
To remind me how ridiculous I am?
Johanna Almstead:
Did you get an answer?
Tricia Whalen:
You know me, I'm very persuasive. So I was like, "You sure about that? Because I think if I could just, let me call out my resume here."
Johanna Almstead:
Hold on, I've got a PowerPoint.
Tricia Whalen:
So ridiculous. So ridiculous.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that's the best. If you had to eat one food for the rest of your life, all day every day, and it would sustain you, you don't have to worry about nutritional value, what would you eat?
Tricia Whalen:
I wouldn't go cheeseburger because I really feel like, oh, I can't do that every day. I'd probably do a, I love a Greek salad, but with chicken. And it'd definitely be [inaudible 01:20:31]-
Johanna Almstead:
Really? I love a Greek, too, but I don't know if I could eat that all day every day.
Tricia Whalen:
I'd feel fine about it, because pick the chicken off and feta today and just eat the lettuce or whatever.
Johanna Almstead:
Or just eat the chicken.
Tricia Whalen:
But then it's an unsweetened iced tea. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Where's your happy place?
Tricia Whalen:
The Hamptons. So much of my childhood memory bank takes place in the Hamptons because we spent a majority of our time there growing up, and it's with family and it's with friends. And then as I got older, it was my high school friends and then it was my college friends and then it was my Kate Spade friends. And so I have so many good memories out there.
Johanna Almstead:
Happy, happy memories, yeah.
Tricia Whalen:
And I was fortunate to have a family place out there and it's where I got married. It's where when Eddie and I first started dating and I took on my stepson, we have just so many good memories being out there, and so it really holds a really strong value for me. It's where I'm ending up, just so you know. So if you need to find me.
Johanna Almstead:
I'll find you there. I'll come hang out with you. I might crash a date here and there. It's also where I crashed your anniversary dinner with your husband.
Tricia Whalen:
More than once or was it just the one time?
Johanna Almstead:
Unclear. Definitely one time where we ended up drinking in Surf Lodge until all hours.
Tricia Whalen:
You stayed over. You stayed over.
Johanna Almstead:
We were on our work trip.
Tricia Whalen:
We went to tour the hotel that we were going to take over.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes.
Tricia Whalen:
And then you ended up, they were like, "We can give you a corporate rate." And then I picked it because I was like, "Eddie's going to drive out. It's my anniversary." And you picked it because we were like, why not take the night off?
Johanna Almstead:
I was like, I'll just take the night off.
Tricia Whalen:
And I was like, "You should come." And you're like, "Ah." And I was like, "I think it's fine."
Johanna Almstead:
I'm like, I'm going to go back to my hotel room and walk on the beach and order in room service.
Tricia Whalen:
And I was like, "No, you're not."
Johanna Almstead:
You're like, "No, you should come to our anniversary dinner."
Tricia Whalen:
No, no, we're meeting Eddie at Surf Lodge in 20. Let's go.
Johanna Almstead:
My god.
Tricia Whalen:
And it was a great night. That dinner was so, and you're like, "You know what? Burp. Let's go." You were like, "Let's go. Champagne. Using the corporate card." Sorry, Craig, using the corporate card.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my god. Yeah, that was fun.
Tricia Whalen:
Core memories.
Johanna Almstead:
We had drinks at Surf Lodge and then we had dinner at Harvest.
Tricia Whalen:
At Harvest and then we stayed at Gurney's.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes.
Tricia Whalen:
And Gurney's is one of my favorite spots.
Johanna Almstead:
And the best was that Eddie came back in the next morning and had a bacon, egg, and cheese for me, too.
Tricia Whalen:
He's good like that. He's a good go like that.
Johanna Almstead:
I was fully part of the, even the morning after.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah, of course.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, man.
Tricia Whalen:
And you guys split a six-pack. I was like, "I'm turning in." And you two had Heinekens and watched the sun go down.
Johanna Almstead:
And smoking cigarettes.
Tricia Whalen:
Thanks for subbing in for me, Joe.
Johanna Almstead:
On your anniversary.
Tricia Whalen:
There's only so much time that I have.
Johanna Almstead:
I just tagged in. You were like, "I'm tagging out."
Tricia Whalen:
Right, you tagged in. Eddie's got a few more stories, so if you could just sit here on the deck with him, let him finish the stories.
Johanna Almstead:
Toast every once in a while, just hold up your beer and.
Tricia Whalen:
Totally. And everyone was happy.
Johanna Almstead:
What a great time.
Tricia Whalen:
Everyone was happy.
Johanna Almstead:
The key to a happy marriage.
Tricia Whalen:
If we decide to do a big love situation, you're the first person we'll call.
Johanna Almstead:
Awe, gee, that's the best, I'm going to put that on a t-shirt. What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world?
Tricia Whalen:
Navy Blue.
Johanna Almstead:
Navy Blue.
Tricia Whalen:
Everything Navy. Navy is my armor.
Johanna Almstead:
That's your power color.
Tricia Whalen:
Yeah, it is. Anything I've ever owned. Interview suit, dress for meetings, all Navy.
Johanna Almstead:
It looks good on you.
Tricia Whalen:
What I'm most comfortable in. It's like my whole house is draped in Navy because that's just what makes me happy.
Johanna Almstead:
There you go. What is your go-to coping mechanism on a bad day?
Tricia Whalen:
I am a big walker.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes, you are.
Tricia Whalen:
I definitely, as I've gotten into more jobs that have maybe a more higher level of pressure, what allows me to let go is walking and working out. It just eclipses it physically, so I like that. But I'm never short of a Real Housewives summer house on Bravo, any of that stuff mentally. I'm like, love it.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. And my last question, what is one thing for sure right now in this moment?
Tricia Whalen:
That you can do anything in life, you can really do anything. When you think about you're younger and what you want to be, and I guess because my kids are teenagers and I'm getting them ready to move off from the nest, I'm trying to instill that intent, all of it, it's an opportunity and it's not. Again, working with celebrities, it's like everyone's a human and you really can do anything you want if you work for it and you pursue it, you don't even have to manifest it, just do it.
Johanna Almstead:
Just do it.
Tricia Whalen:
As we're getting older and wiser and I love women of a certain age, I feel like so much you really can do anything you want.
Johanna Almstead:
So maybe your future as a, what was it? As a performer, as an acrobat?
Tricia Whalen:
What was it?
Johanna Almstead:
What did you say in your fifth grade thing? Your yearbook?
Tricia Whalen:
No, it was a performance artist.
Johanna Almstead:
Performance artist.
Tricia Whalen:
Or pumping gas. Which one?
Johanna Almstead:
Either one. Both. The world is your oyster.
Tricia Whalen:
I think that self-serve has kicked me out of the pumping gas job.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe. Although I do love a fucking full serve. I love to pull up to have someone pump my gas for me.
Tricia Whalen:
I used to love the smell like, yikes. But I did. But I think that performance artist has more longevity.
Johanna Almstead:
Have more legs, really.
Tricia Whalen:
Also a broader opportunity.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, well take your own advice. You can do anything.
Tricia Whalen:
All right, I'll thank you in my Oscar speech, Joe.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I hope. Probably before Eddie because I was a better date that night.
Tricia Whalen:
Before Jesus, yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Before Jesus. Thank you so much for doing this. It's meant the world to me to have you here.
Tricia Whalen:
I'm so incredibly proud of you. I love this podcast, so I'm so happy to be on.
Johanna Almstead:
Yay. Thanks.
Tricia Whalen:
I thank you for having me and look at you doing what you want to do. Proud of you, Joe.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you.
That was so fun. Thank you all for tuning in. As always, we are so grateful that you continue to listen to us and to listen to our stories. If you're enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to it. Please download it. Actually, the downloads really matter, apparently. Please share it with your friends, with your community, with your mom friends, with your office friends, whoever it is. You can text it to people or you can share it over social media. Please follow us on social media, we are at Eat My Words, the podcast, on both Instagram and TikTok, and as you know, we're trying to grow this community and those numbers matter as we grow our community. So anything you can do to support, we are eternally grateful.
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