Eat My Words

Johanna Almstead:
I'm really excited for my next meal with my next guest. We're going to roll the dice a little bit here. As you guys are going to get to know, my next guest has a bountiful and gorgeous vegetable garden. I'm thinking for her meal, I may call her the morning of and just ask her if I can come over and do a little harvesting myself, a little foraging through her garden and see what's cooking. Then I'm going to base the meal around that. Since we're going to do that, I think I'm going to make a really, really simple, but at least I know it's straightforward, things to start. I think I'm going to do just a beautiful cheese and bread spread for the starters. I'm going to have some Manchego. I'm going to have some goat cheese. I'm going to have a little Gouda and some yummy salty crackers, and maybe some dips too, maybe some olive Tapenade and maybe a little, an eggplant dip. Just some nice little dips, keep it really simple, but at least it's easy because I'm going to be preparing the rest of the food on the fly.
Then for drinks, I'm thinking, I'm hoping that her garden has some fresh mint and some fresh basil. I'm thinking of a little bit of a twist on a mojito, which is actually nothing like mojito, but it is citrus and herbs based. I'm going to do fresh lemon, vodka and then top it with seltzer and a little tiny splash of simple syrup if you like it a little sweeter. Then just top it with a sprig of mint and sprig of basil. I think that will be beautiful and just refreshing, not too strong, just sort of kick off the night with this sort of summer festive vibes and get into the sort of herbaceousness of the night.
Then for the meal, I think I'm going to do a savory vegetable tart based on what she has, almost like a little quiche, depending on the veggies that are around because that's sort of easy and you can add or change whatever you want based on the vegetables that you have. I'm going to do a savory veggie tart, which if I can get that done with the starters, I might have that with the cheese plate and things. I think that would be good.
Then for dinner, I'm going to do a grilled halibut. I'm going to do charred lemons on the side of it so you can sort of squeeze lemon, but you get this earthy flavor. Then I'm also going to just make some roasted potatoes so we know we have some carbs. We know we have something to soak up the booze. We know we have that going.
Then I'm hoping that we can just make all the sides from her garden, maybe a corn salad, maybe artichoke something or asparagus or some green beans. I think we'll just go with what the garden has and probably really simple preparations for all those. We're going to have our lovely fish. We're going to have our veggie tart, we're going to have our veggie sides.
I think with that, I'm going to open up a bottle of a white burgundy wine. I am not a huge Chardonnay drinker, but I do love a French Chardonnay. I am going to open up a lovely white burgundy. They're a little fuller bodied than like a Sauvignon Blanc or Sancerre or something. I think they stand up nicely to fish, the halibut, and I think it'll be delicious and feel really like summer bounty.
I'm really, really excited for you guys to get to know our next guest. She's lovely, she's smart, she's kind, she's good, she's creative and wildly talented. I'm so excited for you to get to know her so let's dig in.
Hello everyone and welcome to Eat My Words, the podcast. I am really happy today because I'm feeling very lucky and very excited, but in a calm, excited way to have my friend and someone I admire very much on the show today. I am quite certain that her calming presence and soothing voice is just going to put us all of our collective nerves at ease today. She is a former editor and writer for The Sesame Workshop, which when she told me this a couple of years ago, just made so much sense. Of course, she was part of creating beautiful and kind and smart and meaningful content in her past life. After taking a break from her editorial career in 2009 to raise her kids, she felt a deep need to create and threw herself into cooking and baking from scratch for her growing family. This then sparked her curiosity into how our food is grown, and going back to its very beginnings. As she says, "I want to bake the cake from scratch. I want to make the broth from bones, and yes, I want to grow the vegetables in dirt."
She started planting vegetables in her Brooklyn co-op to varying degrees of success and killed a few tomato plants along the way. It wasn't until several years later and a move out of that co-op to a house in northern Westchester that she really began to hone her gardening skills in earnest. Now more than 12 years later, she is the owner of Mars Kitchen Gardens where she has helped hundreds of people realize the kitchen garden of their dreams as a garden designer and coach. I love the idea of garden coach. She shares her incredibly beautiful, and I think meditative, gardening tips on Instagram to quite a following and just launched her Substack newsletter, which I'm so excited about. We have to talk more about that and what is to come.
She has turned her passion and creativity into a thriving and beautiful business and continues to find ways to share that passion wherever she goes. Her work has been featured in the Bedford Recorder, Financial Times, CNN Underscored, and the Washington Post, nothing to sneeze at there. She is also a wife, a mother to four, yes, four kids, one being a recent high school graduate. Congratulations. She is a daughter. She is a sister, an aunt, a baseball mom, a dog mom, a friend, a beautiful hostess and cook, and an all-around stellar human. Mary Buri, welcome to Eat My Words.
Mary Buri:
Thank you. That was so sweet, so fun to listen to. You are too much.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you for being here.
Mary Buri:
Thank you for having me.
Johanna Almstead:
I really appreciate you taking time out of your crazy life to be here with me.
Mary Buri:
Oh my goodness. I'd be nowhere else right now. This is so fun.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, I've mentioned in other episodes that my not so secret ulterior motive for doing this podcast is getting to catch up with friends. Although we live in the same town and our kids hang out all the time, in fact, they're together right now, that you and I don't ever get to really just hang out. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today.
I love to give context to the audience for how we know each other. I knew of you for many years because I worked closely with your lovely husband, Chad, when he was running the marketing for Jack Spade, and we as the PR team got to do all kinds of super fun and often really wacky events for the brand together. He and I got to work closely together. My team and I actually used to joke about you. We would say, "Who is this famous Mary who's at home? She sounds like a saint," because of the way your sweet husband would talk about you.
Mary Buri:
Oh my God.
Johanna Almstead:
His entire face would light up and the way he would say your name and the way he would talk about your kids and you. We always were just like, "Who is this mysterious and mystical creature, Mary?"
Mary Buri:
He's ridiculous. That's not a show. He really is the sweetest person.
Johanna Almstead:
I know. He really is. Right? He really is. You got a good one there. Then I don't think I got to meet you back then because you were busy having babies and raising babies. I didn't have babies so much later. It wasn't until many years later that unbeknownst to me, I moved to the town that you and Chad were already living in, and we ran into each other at a back to school night. That was such a delightful surprise.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. That was an introduction.
Johanna Almstead:
Then I finally got to put a face to the name of this famous sweet Mary. Then you helped us after you launched your business, you helped us build our amazing kitchen garden, which has brought so much goodness and joy and abundance and veggies into our life. Now your youngest and my eldest are sweet little buddies who are at the same camp this week. I just love how small the world can be, and I love that we now are doing this together. This is fun.
Mary Buri:
Yes, I know. I'm just so happy you've had me. I feel privileged to be here, and this is super fun.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, thank you. I really appreciate you being here. Mostly I want to talk to you today about how you sort of, number one, tapped into a passion or found a passion based out of a need for a creative outlet, and that you then turned it into a business all while still raising your family and dealing with all the things that adulting can bring. Where would you say your journey began?
Mary Buri:
I would say my journey began when Jane, who's my youngest and your daughter's friend, got onto the kindergarten bus. It was very cliche, but it was that first moment where I'm like, "I have just a couple of hours extra, and what could I do with this?" I think there was a buildup to that of just sort of needing to create and needing to do something. I have zero regrets for leaving the editorial career when I did because I was pregnant with my third, and I knew I wanted to be with them, and it was the best thing to do, but it's hard. It's hard to sort of dive into that world and be sucked into all of that, and I just wanted to create about that. I didn't know what I needed to do.
Johanna Almstead:
Can I stop you there for one second and just ask, because I didn't know you when you still had your editorial career. I knew you once you had been in this role for a long time of taking care of your kids full-time, not that anyone doesn't take care of their kids full-time [inaudible 00:09:55].
Mary Buri:
Everyone takes care of their kids full-time. We all do.
Johanna Almstead:
But giving up this other part of your career for a little bit. You make it seem like it looks easy and fun. I wonder if that's really true, or was that true or was that transition a hard transition?
Mary Buri:
Easy, no. Fun, yes. That's how I would answer that. No, it's so much. I have four kids who are within six years of each other, so it was my whole world and it's the one I wanted. I think I've thrived in it because I've always known I wanted to be a mom and that I wanted kind of a big family. I come from a big family. But easy, no, no, never easy. It's why I kind of stayed there and threw myself into motherhood. Actually for a time I was still working at Sesame, when I had Charlie, they were amazing to me, and they gave me this incredible package. I think I had four months paid maternity leave, which is just amazing, so I stayed. Then I had Catherine and I stayed, but I was working part-time, and that split worked until it didn't. I didn't realize when you're in something, you don't really realize that I was being so split between the two. It wasn't until I left actually, and it was part of a massive layoff. I didn't even quit.
Johanna Almstead:
You didn't actually make the decision to leave?
Mary Buri:
I didn't. I think I was on my way, but I was pregnant with Adela at the time, and I kind of knew that at some point after she was born, maybe, that it was time to stop. The three might be the threshold without childcare at home, which we didn't have. But there was this massive layoff and it was coming, and we kind of all knew it. I'm in publishing and I was working at magazines, so shocker. It was not a shocker. Everything kind of folded and I went with it. It was after that I was like, "Oh my God, this was hard. I just need to be this right now." I think knowing that I needed this.
Johanna Almstead:
Single-minded focus [inaudible 00:11:45].
Mary Buri:
It was a beautiful time in Brooklyn with them. It was wonderful. But after years of it, there just came a time where I was like, "I got to get back to creating and I don't know what it is right now." I was continuing to do some freelance writing for parents and that sort of thing, but I'm like, "I don't think that's the thing anymore. I think it's something else." Really, I just started with the thing that was closest, which was Instagram. I just started. Someone told me, I had a friend who was like, "Oh my God, all this stuff you're doing in your garden, you should start to post on IG." I texted her back, "What's IG?"
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my God, that's amazing.
Mary Buri:
She wrote, "Instagram." I was like, "Oh, right, right, right. Okay, right, right, right." That was in 2018. I wasn't even on the app. I was like, "Okay, maybe I'll get my feet wet here." I just started posting pictures of my garden and pictures of the food that I was doing, totally self-conscious the whole time, totally ripping myself apart every time I did it, but I kept doing it. I'm like, "If part of me just wants to keep doing this, I've just got to [inaudible 00:12:44]."
Johanna Almstead:
One foot in front of the other. Just got to keep doing things even when it feels awful and cringey.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. Then I did have sort of this light bulb moment in terms of creating the business. My friend and good neighbor asked me to come over to her own garden to just help her plan. I was literally sitting there on the edge of her garden helping her think about what to plant where. I was like, "You know what? I'm just going to take this home with me and I'm going to draw it all out for you, and I'll let you know what crops you should put where, and you'll do it." I went home and I started drawing and I was like, "Holy shit, this is a job. This is a job."
Johanna Almstead:
[inaudible 00:13:21].
Mary Buri:
I was like, "Chad," and he was like, "This is a job." Chad is the most amazing partner because he's so gung-ho about things. He's the guy who was like, "Just start doing it. This is what you do. This is what you do now."
Johanna Almstead:
This is your job now.
Mary Buri:
"This is it. Just start doing it. See what happens." He's such a confident guy.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that.
Mary Buri:
We balance each other.
Johanna Almstead:
He knows his stuff. He knows the world of and the zeitgeist and what sticks and what doesn't. It's not even just being a supportive husband, but he actually knows what's up in the world.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. Exactly. We balance each other so well. He's so good with the operations side of thing and the branding, and I'm content. I'm the writer, I'm the brains, I'm the gardener. He's like, "I will help you package it."
Johanna Almstead:
I love it. That's a beautiful partnership.
Mary Buri:
I think so. It's gone well so far. I mean, we drive each other crazy too, like do not get me wrong.
Johanna Almstead:
Do you though? Because I feel like you're just so, both of you are so even cute and kind.
Mary Buri:
If you want the honest truth.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes, I do.
Mary Buri:
He drives me crazy. Nothing drives him crazy. He is as chill as he appears to be. That drives me crazy.
Johanna Almstead:
That drives you crazy. You're like, "Can't I just drive you crazy once?"
Mary Buri:
Exactly. He's chill, he's relaxed, he's confident. I'm like, " [inaudible 00:14:32]." We do balance each other in that way too.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, I really genuinely have no reality on that because I'm pretty sure that everything I do drives my husband crazy. God bless the fact that you have somebody who is not irritated by you all the time.
Mary Buri:
Well, listen, I'll also back that up and say, and these are conversations we've had, "I definitely drive you crazy. You are not telling me because you are not even letting yourself know." He has [inaudible 00:14:57].
Johanna Almstead:
You're suppressing it on a whole other level.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. You're suppressing it on a whole other level. It's working for me until it isn't. But he's very kind.
Johanna Almstead:
One day you're just going to murder me in my sleep because it all comes boiling out.
Mary Buri:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
Speaking of partners, you've also spoken about your dad and his passion and his expertise in gardening. I love that you share this passion with your dad. It seems so, as someone who has sort of a tumultuous relationship with her dad, the fact that you guys have this lovely bond is so nice. You wrote something, you said, "My father is my first and always garden teacher, and I continue to benefit from his obsessive growing endeavors, garlic farming, beekeeping, plant grafting, vine tunneling, worm vermi composting, fertilizer, DIYing, compost perfecting, mulch making, dehydrator delirium. Dad continues to cycle through meticulous studies in and around his garden." Can you tell me a little bit about his impact on you and his influence and what that relationship is like, because it's really lovely.
Mary Buri:
It is. He's, I guess, an obsessive hobbyist and he will really cycle through things. I think the distinction we have is that I will get into something and throw myself into it with a passion. He does the same thing, but then when he's done, he's done and he exits. I did it.
Johanna Almstead:
He's like, "I did be beekeeping, I'm done with beekeeping."
Mary Buri:
The queen died and he's like, "Okay, that's it. Wrap it up."
Johanna Almstead:
Check it off the list.
Mary Buri:
He created a whole new system for beehives and built them himself and his Chad, and then he was like, "Oh, she's dead. We'll just give these away." I'm like, "What?" He's got that sort of beautiful obsessive mind and we do share the gardening thing. None of my other brothers and sisters garden, so it's my unique thing I get to do with him. We get together and we nerd out on it, and it's a very special thing.
But he's getting older and he's doing a lot less of it now. Actually, my son Charlie had a visit last week up there with him and he said, "Oh, guess what? Grandpa's got a new thing he's going to do." I was like, "Oh, dear God, what is this?" It's something to do with bats. He's going to do bats.
Johanna Almstead:
Like bat houses?
Mary Buri:
I don't know if it's houses or bat keeping. Do you bat keep? I don't know. He's going to do something.
Johanna Almstead:
Bat herding?
Mary Buri:
Some kind of bat herding maybe. That's what's next for grandpa. TBD on that.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that he's keeping curious.
Mary Buri:
He's so curious. He's super curious. He's very busy and he's a delight.
Johanna Almstead:
How old is he?
Mary Buri:
He's 80 now.
Johanna Almstead:
Wow. Good for him. I love that. Neither you nor your father had any formal education around gardening? Right?
Mary Buri:
Correct. Correct. He grew up in Vermont on a farm, so that was his. Then when we were little, we actually lived up in the Finger Lakes and he had a giant farm of potatoes and animals and lots of things. He's been doing it forever, but totally self-taught. I would call myself that too. I taught myself Google and YouTube taught me and my dad taught me.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my gosh, that's so cool. I just mentioned him being curious, but it feels to me like you get really curious about things. I feel like I'm much more of a surface level thing, and when I watch your videos, I'm like, "Oh, she's going deep. She's going deep into the paper around the garlic and how it needs to be dehydrated and all the things." Is that who you have always been or how do you remain curious or is this just who you are?
Mary Buri:
Well, I think with gardening, it's for me, and I think this will be true for anyone who has passions and everyone has passions, it drives it. I don't know what it is that grounds me so much in this obsession, but it's there. I'm never out in the garden when I'm not my most sort of peaceful self. That is when I'm harvesting from beautifully healthy vines and it's when I'm finding worm covered cabbage, all of it is good to me. All of it is wonderful.
Johanna Almstead:
That's good.
Mary Buri:
That sounds a little cheesy as I'm hearing it come out.
Johanna Almstead:
I don't think so.
Mary Buri:
But it's just so grounding and humbling. It makes me feel small. It makes me feel small in the best way, and it's what I want for other people. I want to be sort of a guide for others to find themselves out there because I don't think it's unique to me. I think being more in touch with dirt and plants and food could be a fairly universal thing.
Johanna Almstead:
I think we all probably could benefit from more of that. Right? It's interesting that you say it makes you feel small because, and we won't talk about the fact that I'm not a good gardener, but one of the results of our beautiful garden that you helped us put together was that the harvesting part of it made me feel powerful. It made me be like, "Oh, look at this. We can do this. We can grow our own food." Or we would have entire meals, which I know is a regular occurrence at your house, of everything that came from the garden. It's so astonishing to me. That to me reminded me of the power of nature, but also the power of us and our ability to, the little hard work here, we can feed ourselves with it.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. Working in tandem, Working with the thing. I think we're talking about two sides of the same coin. I feel that power too, going out there. I mean you know I do because I'm constantly sharing my trucks, because I brag all the time trying to inspire. But I think it's that same feeling. It's like when I'm in the presence of a harvest, I feel like it's bigger than me and I get to be part of it. That just feels so safe. It feels so good. When I'm out there continually witnessing the things I don't have control over, that's the good part of the small that I'm talking about. That propels me get more control. It propels me to learn more, to be a better shepherd, to have more successes, to feel more powerful.
But at the end of the day, the plants are going to do what they're going to do with the resources they have. They don't care about you, they don't care about me. They don't care who's eating them. They're just doing the only thing they know how to do, which is to grow and then reproduce. The same bugs are going to come and the weather is not going to be something we can control. We're sort of the thing, we're sort of the, what's the word I'm looking for, in an experiment, the variable.
Johanna Almstead:
The variable?
Mary Buri:
Thank you. We're sort of the variable. When you put yourself out there, there's a kind of beautiful, I find vulnerability in that of let's see what happens. If you mess up, try again. That's okay. Not that I don't hate failures. I can feel them deeply, but it's this beautiful cycle. I don't know, I'll be doing it forever. It's my thing. It's my thing. I'm like, "There's got to be something there. This is such an authentically my thing that if I can find a way to share this, it's going to resonate because that's how that works." Right?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. When you first started sharing it, it was really more for the creative and the connection as opposed to turning it into a business or when you first started sharing it, were you like, "I'm going to share this with the intention of this becoming a real business."
Mary Buri:
Business, no, but something, like something. I have a very open-ended outlook on life. Not intentionally, it's not a comfortable thing that I have, but I have a hard time closing the loop on potential. Let me try to explain that. If you asked me what I wanted to be when I was little, that was the most terrifying question I could ever hear because I don't know. I don't know what's coming next, so I just do what feels right right now, and then fingers crossed. I didn't know. Long way of answering that is I didn't know. I hoped that if I was posting things online, it would lead to something else. I didn't think I'd blow up on Instagram or anything. Oh my God. But the couple of times I got the New York Times to post a picture of my recipe, I was like, "I've made it. I've made it."
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah you have.
Mary Buri:
You're one of 20 in a day. It's cool. It's fine. It's fine. I'm like, "I'm famous."
Johanna Almstead:
No, put that shit on the fridge. You're famous.
Mary Buri:
No, it wasn't until I was like, "Oh, garden coaching. This is an actual business. I can start a local business." I had no idea what I was doing. I'm like, "Oh, well, half the people are not going to have gardens, so we'll just build gardens too. It's cool. It's fine. We'll just build them."
Johanna Almstead:
Now I'm a builder.
Mary Buri:
I'm like a contractor. I'm a contractor. It's cool. I'm going to design gardens. I'm going to find someone to build them. It's going to be great, so insane.
Johanna Almstead:
Flying by the seat of your pants. I want to go back to the idea too, that this all started from this need for creative fulfillment, yet you had many small babies at home when you were having that need. How did you prioritize meeting that need when there were clearly a lot of other needs on you, I'm sure? How did you prioritize, this is something I need to do for me? I know this is something deep down. I don't even know what I'm doing yet, but I know that there's a hole that needs to be filled, and then there's probably someone spitting up on you and probably someone pulling your shirt that needs something and a meal that needs to be cooked and a diaper that needs to be changed. How did you find the space in your brain slash time, day? How did you carve out the time to fulfill that unmet need?
Because I think that many people at any age, especially mothers, but women I would say in general, are struggling and are not societally supported necessarily in being able to fulfill the needs that sort of some of most basic things.
Mary Buri:
Most basic.
Johanna Almstead:
I would love to understand if you thought about it at all, if you just sort of went on autopilot, how did you carve out time or energy or focus or any of that to just start to do the creating in the first place?
Mary Buri:
I would say the first year where I was just posting online, I wasn't giving myself permission. I was just kind of sneaky doing it. I had a few minutes and almost feeling like total imposter syndrome. But when I decided to do the business, I think Chad had a lot to do with it, to be honest, because I was so hesitant to give myself the permission to do it, not only to take the time that it took to write a website. I poured so many hours into this website, which had to kind of outline my services. I'm like, "What are my services?" I was making this job up. I'm like, "How do I plant a garden, a crop lay, a planting plant?" I had to develop all the systems and all this shit took so much time.
He was like, "Take it. Just take it." I would do it at night and I would do it when they were in school. But this was hard for me because there was still no proof of concept. It was like, I'm going to throw myself out there having a few friends who were like, "You got this," and some pictures online.
Johanna Almstead:
Go you.
Mary Buri:
Knowing I can garden, but how the hell am I going to be an entrepreneur? I didn't feel like I had an entrepreneurial spirit in me. I think it was piecemeal. It was like just do the thing and then freak out and not be able to sleep at night, wake up, do a little bit more. It was repeat, tons of imposter syndrome.
It was Chad on the foundation being like, "This is good. You got this. This is good." He was doing it with me. He was doing the colors of the website and he was starting to do all the backend stuff. He took care of making us an LLC and getting the lawyer and doing all that stuff. That was all him so I could be like, "I'm the gardener." But I don't know. That's hard. That's so hard for all of us. I think all of us, we all need to create. Our different versions of that are, they can look wildly different, but I don't think any of us is without that need. It had just been many years of me fully being a mom and I was like, "I just have to do this. I just have to do this and see what happens."
Johanna Almstead:
I would imagine because of the way you described that feeling of being split when you were part-time and raising your kids, that it's almost like you were on the other end of it now and you had been home and sort of single-minded focus and doing all of the things and the cooking and the baking and the gardening with your family and your kids, and then all of a sudden you were splitting again. Right? All of a sudden you were opening your brain up too.
Mary Buri:
Absolutely, 100%. This was this fear of that coming back and not that that splitting was a terrible thing. I just was like, "I know that I don't want to feel like I'm half anywhere. I want to fully be everywhere." I think that was just a maturation I had to do too, like wake up, this is a reality. We can't be fully everywhere. It was a growing up, I think too. If you want to do the thing, you have to do the other things a little less and they'll survive and you'll survive. You can't be 100% at everything. It was allowing that to set in and give myself permission for that, which is very slow, which I'm still doing. I promise I'm still doing, and we all do it. Right?
Johanna Almstead:
Exactly.
Mary Buri:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
I think we all are. I have moments, I think I probably say it at least twice a day to my kids like, "I just wish there were two of me. I wish there were five of me."
Mary Buri:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Like, "Yes, I wish I could drop both of you off at camp," or, "I wish I could also work and go to your recital," or whatever. I think I try not to ever make them feel like they're orphans to my work, but I also don't want them to think that I don't love my work.
Mary Buri:
Right.
Johanna Almstead:
I think it's pretty cool for your kids to have watched this, pardon the pun, organically grow, watch you be doing this in your own home for so long and as part of your family life, and then all of a sudden turn that into a business. Did they have any feelings about it? Did they even notice?
Mary Buri:
They totally noticed and they've been proud of me the entire time. That was definitely part of it too. I'm like, "What's my legacy? What am I doing? Are my kids going to grow up and just ..." They wouldn't care. They'd be like my, "My mom did ..." But I was like, "I want them to see too, that I'm capable of more. I want them to see me doing the thing that I need to do. I don't want them to see me saying no to those parts of myself."
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Mary Buri:
You've got to be so proud too, that that's something that your kids have consistently seen. I remember it was probably two years ago, sitting on the bleachers with you at the girls softball game.
Johanna Almstead:
[inaudible 00:29:27].
Mary Buri:
I'm like, "What's up? What are you doing?" You're like, "Well, I joined this new writing group." I'm like, "Okay, what?" You telling me about this writing. I mean, I was so envious. I was so envious, but I was so proud of you. I'm like, "She's just doing it. She's doing it. She's keeping that thread going." Now you're doing this, which I'm so happy for you and which you're so good at.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you. Thank you.
Mary Buri:
But it's like we have to just keep doing the things.
Johanna Almstead:
But I think also joining that writing group, which I feel like was sort of the impetus to where I ended up now here, is it became untenable not to. I definitely hit a point of neglecting that side of me. Yes, I've always worked and I've always done things, but that true, true creative fulfillment and that true creative expression that always felt kind of indulgent before, it all of a sudden was necessary. It wasn't indulgent anymore. It just was like I've hit a point in my life where I have to. I don't have any other choice at this point.
Mary Buri:
What does that feel like, that have to, because for me, that feels like if I don't do this, I'm not whole in the other parts. It's just such a beautiful need because it's propelling you to do something that's going to make you more complete. Right?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I think it's funny because I found it was a good lesson for me to check in on what was going on because I would find myself, I mean, we had gone through a shit storm of personal stuff and it was a lot. There just really wasn't time or brain space for a long time, and then there was a little bit.
In that moment of coming out of the woods of darkness, I would find myself being a little snarky or a little jealous of people who had cool projects going on. I am so not that person. I'm not a jealous person at all. I'm a super, I'm so excited for the world. That was important to me because what it meant to me was that there was an unmet need inside.
Mary Buri:
It's a sign. Absolutely.
Johanna Almstead:
I was like, "Why do I care that she's writing a book? That's awesome." I normally would be so, so excited and enthusiastic and not really an envious person.
Mary Buri:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
That for me was a big red flag of like, "Okay, check in girlfriend. What's happening? What do you need and what does that look like?" That signing up for that first writing workshop was terrifying to me.
Mary Buri:
Oh my God. I'm sure. I got to share and do what?
Johanna Almstead:
I felt like I was having an affair.
Mary Buri:
Oh my God, say more about that.
Johanna Almstead:
I was like, "Oh my God, I'm going to spend money on this." It was expensive and it's going to take time away from my family. It felt a little dirty.
Mary Buri:
Indulgent, sure.
Johanna Almstead:
In a way that was so, which also was a red flag of like, "Whoa."
Mary Buri:
Also a huge red flag.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. You're in a situation here that needs some remedying. Again, this was completely self-imposed. This was not my family or my husband or anybody being like, "How dare you take a writing class?" It was me not granting myself the space, the freedom, the time, whatever it was.
I remember one of the classes I took was from 7:00 to 10:00 at night, and that's an intense time in a household with kids. I remember being like, "Okay, guys, I am going to be unavailable from 7:00 to 10:00 every night and dad's going to do bedtime, or there's going to be a babysitter here and I'm going to take this class and I'm going to focus on this." That was like, it sounds so silly now, but it was really hard to do. It was really hard to take that first step.
Mary Buri:
It's kind of amazing though that it sounds silly now because there you go. You did it. You got the perspective you needed.
Johanna Almstead:
We all survived and it's all going to be okay.
Mary Buri:
Then it led to the next thing. That's another thing. It's like everything leads to the next thing.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. I think about that all the time of why is it so easy for most men to do things for themselves and take time? I always say this about sports. My husband's a big sports fan, and we have lots of tickets to lots of things. I'm always like, "If I just woke up on a Sunday and was like, 'I'm going to be gone for the next nine hours because I'm going to go and I'm going to tailgate, and then I'm going to do the thing and I have to drive two hours to get there and then I got to be there four hours early, and then there's a game.'" I'm like, "If I just woke up and was like, 'I'm going to go do something like that for nine hours that wasn't work or wasn't my children, I think heads would roll in this house.'"
Mary Buri:
Or at least you'd think they would.
Johanna Almstead:
I would think they would.
Mary Buri:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
I'd be terrified to even say it.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. Whereas they might not even think of it, but they don't have to do the balance that's just built into our framework.
Johanna Almstead:
If I did do that, I would've been like, "And then here's seven meals that have been prepared, and here's a list of all the things that if you're going to leave the house, you need to do this and this is where they need to be." It's so crazy.
Mary Buri:
It is.
Johanna Almstead:
But I do think that's one of the reasons I love this podcast so much is that just I think sharing our stories and understanding that people, we're all having those things.
Mary Buri:
All the same things, all the same things. No matter what we're doing, no matter if we're home full-time with the kids, never quit work, do some hybrid, we all have the same feelings. It's that push, it's that pull. It's that how do I balance this thing? Then as we get to our age, it's like, "Oh my God, life is so short. Oh my God, we've got parents dying. We've got perimenopause, we've got all these things right after us." It's like, "I got to get my together."
Johanna Almstead:
Well, you mentioned your legacy, and I definitely had that moment where I was like, "I don't want to just be this person who used to work at big brands in fashion," if that's what my kids know. They don't really understand my consulting business because they're like, "What is it you do?" I'm like, "I don't ..." They're like, "Are you a fashion designer?" I'm like, "No."
Mary Buri:
Then I'm not interested.
Johanna Almstead:
They're like, "Are you going to make me clothes, because if you're not, I don't really care." This idea that having something tangible for them to latch onto and understand, that became important too.
Mary Buri:
Absolutely. On that, it's like, "Oh, what am I doing? Is it impressive enough?" Getting back to your point, it's like there's some red flags if we're asking ourselves these crazy questions. I started a local business that much of it is construction and falls into the category of construction and landscaping. It's like, "Really?" So much of this whole process is humbling. Gosh, it's been such a few years.
Johanna Almstead:
What do your days look like? Because do they really look like what they look like on Instagram because they look so charming on Instagram?
Mary Buri:
There's a lot of charm to my days, and there's a lot of not charm to my days. Actually that's good to hear because you want to share the other stuff. I hope I do. I hope I share some of the just very normal stuff too. But I try not to do too much of my family. I try to keep it in the garden too because as they're getting older and they just don't want to be on camera at all. But my days are good. They're very balanced now. For the first few years, they were crazy.
When I launched, it was January of 2020. We were propelled into the pandemic and it was bonkers. Everyone needed a garden and a dog. I was like, "Oh, I got your garden." I had so much more work than I had counted for. This sounds naive now, but I really wanted this to be a part-time job. That's the only amount of time I had. I didn't even have part-time.
Johanna Almstead:
You were just dabbling.
Mary Buri:
I was dabbling. I was dabbling. I'm crazy to think that I can have this crazy list of services that I could offer while having maybe a couple hours a day to it. But the pandemic happened, and then we didn't go anywhere. There was no birthday parties, there were no sports, there were no anything. Chad came home to work and I was like, "Oh, I do have time to do this."
Johanna Almstead:
Now you're like, "Now I have four laborers that [inaudible 00:37:24]."
Mary Buri:
I actually did use them a couple of times. I did in desperation. There's a lot of desperate moments in those first months. But I very often wonder what would've happened if we didn't have the pandemic because I think I would've had a wake-up call very quickly, and I would've had to hit breaks in some direction. But I just went all out because it's hard to say no and it's just like, "Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes."
Johanna Almstead:
Got to ride the wave, got to ride the momentum.
Mary Buri:
I hit walls. I hit walls quick and it took me a while to dial back. I've since dialed back and sort of the amount of people I work with and the amount of jobs I do by a lot. It's just finally these last two seasons that I have the amount of work that I want to have. That can open me up now for space to do more writing and more sharing, because that's really what I want to be doing.
Johanna Almstead:
Speaking of more writing, you have a new Substack.
Mary Buri:
I do.
Johanna Almstead:
What are we going to find there? What can people expect to find there? Because this is very exciting.
Mary Buri:
It is.
Johanna Almstead:
Because you are a writer through and through.
Mary Buri:
Thank you. I'm hoping where all of this has been heading. I really need a space where I can take the things that I'm doing with people one-on-one and make it more broad. There's one of me, and I realized right quick that I have to put limits on how many people I can work with. This is a way to sort of be like, "Okay, I'm six years into this and I know so much about garden design and garden building and planting and planning and everything for gardens that are a super manageable size for your backyard that you can do and the neighbors can do. So how do I use all this kind of wealth of knowledge and keep working, but do it on my time and do it in a way that makes me ..." It's the next step for me.
I'm still building gardens, but very few, and I'm still coaching people and managing some gardens, but I've just dialed that way back to open up space for this because I still don't have full-time. I have four kids at home. I have four kids at home. No, it's not peachy and no, it's craziness, it's madness. But I don't get this back with them. I know you know that feeling too. But Charlie's going to college. I've got two others in high school, they're leaving.
Johanna Almstead:
I wanted to talk to you about that. This is going to be a whole new season of parenting for you. He's flying the coop.
Mary Buri:
I still have them, but while I have them, I got to be here. It's super important to me never to frame my job as full-time. It was absolutely full-time in 2020 and 2021. It was more than full-time. I was working many, many hours over full-time a week, but it was a pandemic, and I kind of had to because I didn't know how to steer away from it for a while. Once I found my footing there and I did, I'm like, "I got to be part-time until they're gone because I can't get them back." I mean, they come back. You know what I mean? You can't get these years back.
Johanna Almstead:
You can't get these years back. I think this has come up on this podcast almost every episode of as your kids get older, you just need to be physically around absorbing things more as opposed to, you don't really need to be doing as many things for them, but you just need to be around so that they will talk to you about what's going on, or you can glean it from overhearing what they're talking to their friends or whatever. I think that that is huge. That's become such a reality for me. I'm like, "Oh, I have to be around."
Mary Buri:
I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank God for remote work and thank God for this sort of new flexible world we're living in, that we can create these incredible businesses that work around our lives. But it's so important. Someone said that to me when I was younger, but way before I had kids. She always said, "Work hard when your kids are little, even though it sounds counterintuitive because you think that they need you and you kind of need them because they're so little and whatever, but really they need somebody to take care of them, but it doesn't always have to be you."
Mary Buri:
Right.
Johanna Almstead:
But later when they're bigger, they actually need you. It's not just a warm body. They need their parents.
Mary Buri:
I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
That is very real for me now.
Mary Buri:
I love that so much. I feel like it's so true. As they get to high school, it's like you're lucky if you get time.
Johanna Almstead:
Right.
Mary Buri:
That idea of just being there if and when it works out to hang out.
Johanna Almstead:
Like, "Hey, I'm here, just doing my thing over here in case you want to hang."
Mary Buri:
Exactly. It's such a balance.
Johanna Almstead:
What's the best part of your job?
Mary Buri:
That's a good question. If I'm truly honest, it's that I'm good at it. I'm sorry, that's it.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that.
Mary Buri:
It's that I said I could do it and I'm good at it, because it's not always easy sometimes and it's not always even something I want to be doing.
Johanna Almstead:
Interesting. But it feels so good to be good at something?
Mary Buri:
It does. It does. Also, there's a big difference between my home gardening and my coaching gardening. Home gardening is its own world. That's my piece. That's my everything. But when I'm in the garden with someone else, that's work and it's beautiful and there's so much flow that I get there, but it's very distinct because I'm doing something for someone else versus just being.
Johanna Almstead:
You're providing a service.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. That is interesting to me too, because I want to know your thoughts on that too. The idea of taking your passion and making that your work, I feel like that can work and that also could sting. It's like where's the separation of church and state? Right? I mean, I really took the thing that I'm most obsessed with and I made it my profession versus being like, "I want to be a writer and I'm going to write about whatever." It's like I took the thing and I translated it, and very quickly I see, "Oh, they're still different. It's still work and it's still home."
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, I think in many ways it's the greatest gift in the world to be able to do what you love all day and can also be a curse. You don't want the work part to ever sour the passion or the responsibility parts of it. You don't want to make it not as fun or as fulfilling.
Mary Buri:
Right. Exactly. I know now six years in that there's no chance of that happening because it feels so distinct. It feels so distinct. Gardening is just [inaudible 00:43:34].
Johanna Almstead:
But I think it took you a while to figure that out because you had to sort of separate the two and find some boundaries around.
Mary Buri:
For sure.
Johanna Almstead:
I do think boundaries are a huge part of it.
Mary Buri:
Huge. But being in the garden with new gardeners and sharing the same little lessons, elementary lessons that I've shared bazillions of times in many different ways, and having it hit every single time, that's fum, where they're like, "Oh, really? There's a male and a female squash blossom. What? And they do what to make a baby?" It's these little things and I'm like, "Yeah." I got to deliver that, I guess.
Johanna Almstead:
That's like hitting your jump shot every time. You're like, "I do this." Actually, I have a very similar process with consulting clients, and it is so gratifying. Sometimes you think you're going on autopilot or you're like, "Is this going to work again? I don't know. Maybe I should change it up a little bit." Then I do it and people are like, "What? Oh my God." And you're like, "I guess I do know some things. This is good."
Mary Buri:
That's why it worked. That's why it worked last year. The delight, that is something that I love about my job because I think if people are coming to me, they're like, "I have this thing that I think I might want to do," and I'm helping them get there a little bit quicker or even at all. Right. I know what gardening does for me, so if I can get out there and give them a taste of that and watch it happen for them, it's like, "Okay, this is amazing." It's amazing.
Johanna Almstead:
You're literally helping people realize their little garden dreams.
Mary Buri:
I would say that's also the best.
Johanna Almstead:
What's the worst part of the job?
Mary Buri:
The worst part is getting ugly to go to work.
Johanna Almstead:
The un-glam of it all?
Mary Buri:
Yes, yes. It's humbling in the way that I don't want. It's like, "All right, got to go meet someone in the garden to coach. We need our sunscreen. We need our overalls. We got to go." Then sweating in the garden. That's humbling in a different way. It's unglamorous, but at the same time there's like, listen, being humbled is always a good thing. Whether it feels good or not, whether it feels good or not.
Johanna Almstead:
It may not be comfortable anymore, but it is good for us. It's character building.
Mary Buri:
I love all the things I do. I think it hurts when I take too much on getting back to boundaries. When I take too much on and I'm like, "Oh shit, how do I get it all done?" That's what I don't like, so that's mostly about me.
Johanna Almstead:
I think you're probably not alone in that.
Mary Buri:
I would suspect.
Johanna Almstead:
I have a friend who's this mega, she's just a powerhouse, man. She has a very, very big job, like a chief officer level job at a big technology company. She travels all the time and she has never skipped a beat and has two stepchildren and a child of her own and is one of the most involved parents I know.
Mary Buri:
How does she do it all?
Johanna Almstead:
We literally are like, "I don't understand," and she's a very committed friend. I will have a dinner planned and she will be posting from the Alps the day before and then she'll show up at my dinner and she's like, "Oh yeah, I got in at 4:00 a.m. this morning." I'm like, "What are you doing here? You could have bailed." We always joke about how does she do it? She says, "Well, I sleep every third Friday."
Mary Buri:
That's crazy.
Johanna Almstead:
Literally though, that's how she's out breath all the time.
Mary Buri:
She's also got to, it's sacrifices, but also she's downplaying the fact that she's probably super organized. It's like it's organization.
Johanna Almstead:
She is very organized. She's very decisive. She's very clear about her purpose and about the fact that she's a working mom and has always been a working mom and has always needed help because she's a working mom and makes no bones about it, makes no apologies for it, no insecurities around it, like, "This is who I am, this is what I do, and everyone get on board."
Mary Buri:
I love it. I love it.
Johanna Almstead:
I learn from her a lot.
Mary Buri:
I bet you do. She sounds amazing, incredible.
Johanna Almstead:
She is. You'll meet. Well we'll to, because I can't wait to have more of my IRL dinners, especially with the guests from the podcast.
Mary Buri:
I mean, that's going to be amazing.
Johanna Almstead:
I know. We might have to come pick some things from your garden.
Mary Buri:
I'll bring them. I'm always that person. I'm that person who shows up with shit in the mason jar. I'm embarrassed to do it.
Johanna Almstead:
No, you shouldn't be embarrassed. It's so lovely.
Mary Buri:
I [inaudible 00:47:51].
Johanna Almstead:
I mentioned earlier that I am actually not a very good gardener. I'm a very enthusiastic garden fan is what I've decided I am. I really love the garden. I'm a pretty good harvester. I'm really not good at the rest.
Mary Buri:
But [inaudible 00:48:04] the gardener and the family.
Johanna Almstead:
Michael's the gardener. He's the one doing his thing. I get to enjoy the benefits. He makes me do things sometimes. I'm not great at it. I was going to say I love it, but I don't love it. I enjoy the bounty of it, but I get irritable in the process. I think I'm not patient enough. I'm not exact enough. I'm much more of a big picture person. I'm like, "Show me the kale when it's big."
Mary Buri:
I've heard that so many times. This way of gardening is very common and is also very beautiful.
Johanna Almstead:
But I want to know for someone like me who's kind of a dummy, like a gardening 101, like really, I'm very remedial. What is your first, what's your baseline? Where do you start with someone like that?
Mary Buri:
Herbs and pots.
Johanna Almstead:
Herbs.
Mary Buri:
Herbs and pots. You can't mess them up.
Johanna Almstead:
I can. I did. I did. I tried. I had all these herbs in my kitchen.
Mary Buri:
I just posted them today, top down, just pinch top down and you're good to go. They'll get bigger than you can believe. Herbs. Herbs and pots. Greens. Greens are a good entry point because you're eating the greens. You're not waiting on a big fruit to form like a tomato. I think it's leafy is good to start with. Leafy greens, herbs, and if you want to be crazy and do something fruiting, string beans are very easy.
Johanna Almstead:
I have a new kitchen being built right now.
Mary Buri:
Amazing, exciting, terrifying.
Johanna Almstead:
We're in the process of a massive renovation and I'm newly re-energized about my herbs. I went and bought all these gorgeous pots, like really expensive, beautiful pots and all these herbs and did this whole thing, and then I killed all of them eventually.
Mary Buri:
How did we kill them?
Johanna Almstead:
Over time. It took me a while, but I did, and then now I was actually just cleaning out some of the pots the other day and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to do it again. When we're back in the kitchen and I have the whole new life because I'm going to have a whole new house. I'm going to be a different person," clearly. I'm going to [inaudible 00:49:54].
Mary Buri:
Obviously the kitchen is going to do that for you. [inaudible 00:49:56].
Johanna Almstead:
If you build it, it will come. All of a sudden. I'm like, "I grow herbs."
Mary Buri:
Let me ask you, did you have the herbs in pots in your kitchen? Is that what you're saying?
Johanna Almstead:
That's what I had to start.
Mary Buri:
Inside the kitchen.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe that wasn't the move.
Mary Buri:
That's your first maybe concern. I don't even do that. I think that you got to put them outside. You got to put them outside.
Johanna Almstead:
They're happier outside?
Mary Buri:
Yeah, unless you have tons of light. I mean, of course you can do it. I haven't had great success growing them indoors, but I know.
Johanna Almstead:
That makes me feel better.
Mary Buri:
It does but I'm sure you'll hear lots of people who do and I also just love growing them outdoors. Maybe that's just my default. But put them in your sunniest spots and water them and harvest. The more you harvest anything.
Johanna Almstead:
That's the part that I get nervous about. I think I'm not a good harvester. I get nervous or I'm afraid I'm going to use them all up or something.
Mary Buri:
Right. Well, you got to let them get to a certain size, depending, but then you have to just harvest. I do think they'll grow faster outside, but I'm sure you can have great success in a very sunny spot on your new kitchen [inaudible 00:50:56].
Johanna Almstead:
I'll just call my garden coach on speed dial and she'll talk me through it.
Mary Buri:
But I don't really try to overwinter herbs and that kind of stuff. Where we live, it's just you start fresh. Start fresh every season.
Johanna Almstead:
That makes me feel better too. I kept trying to make them last forever and it made me sad.
Mary Buri:
No, and there's herbs outdoors that'll come back. Mint will come back, oregano will come back, but most of them we're just starting fresh.
Johanna Almstead:
I think that's going to be new for me because I wait until they're scraggly and dead and dying and it makes me very sad to empty the pot and start over.
Mary Buri:
That is sad. It's always sad, but it's less sad when it's gone and you can pretend it was never there. Start fresh. It's like getting rid of anything. It's only sad before you've gotten rid of it.
Johanna Almstead:
It's so good when you get rid of it. Oh my God. The idea of dreaming has come up a lot on this podcast of women of a certain age. Do we dream anymore? Do we have time for dreaming anymore? A lot of us, some of my guests that I've had on, I've been friends with since we were really young and weren't that busy and had a lot of time to dream about what our lives were going to be. I wonder maybe when you're in the garden, are you dreaming? Do you have any time for dreaming? Do you still dream?
Mary Buri:
Yes, of course. I think this is going to get me back a little bit to my difficulty with closing things up, with sort of proceeding without really believing the big things are going to happen. But yes, of course I dream. I mean, on a garden level, I dream of tripling my garden. I dream of adding a second garden.
Johanna Almstead:
Garden of dreams.
Mary Buri:
Garden of dreams. I don't know. Tell me more about yours.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, it's funny because I hadn't really thought about it much until someone asked me and I was like, well, this podcast is actually the result of a dream.
Mary Buri:
I love it.
Johanna Almstead:
I definitely feel like there was a time where I stopped. I've always been a big daydreamer. I've always been a big visualizer. I think ever since I was little, I've always been picturing what my life is going to be and building that life.
Mary Buri:
I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
It's so weird when you have moments you're like, "Oh my God, I'm in it. I did it."
Mary Buri:
I'm here.
Johanna Almstead:
I have those moments with my kids all the time. I feel like there was a time a few years ago when we were going through so many, we just kept getting blow after blow after blow of hard things. I definitely stopped dreaming. I definitely was in this triage mode I think, of making sure everyone was taken care of and nobody else was dying around us and people's health was sorted out and it was a lot of logistics and it was a lot of emotional management. I had this basically right before I signed up for that writing class actually when I was talking to you about it was this idea that I don't even know what I want anymore. I don't even know what I'm ... I'm not even dreaming anymore. I'm just trying to get through the day, get through the week, get through the whatever.
That was a really uncomfortable and bummer feeling for me because again, I think my default setting is generally very positive and generally very dreamy. I'm very like, "Oh." But now I do. Now getting to do this podcast with people and we get to talk about our dreams all the time and what we want for ourselves and what we want for our families and what we want for our friends, what we want for our businesses. Now I get to dream like it's my job.
Mary Buri:
Oh my God, I love that. I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
What is something that you once believed about yourself that you've since outgrown?
Mary Buri:
Boy, that's a good one. Is it so crazy that I don't know how to answer that. I feel like this is telling, this is saying something.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe it's something we just need to pay attention to for a little bit.
Mary Buri:
I feel like this is one of those moments, those questions. It's like if you can't answer a question like that, something going to think about. It's so interesting to me.
Johanna Almstead:
I think it's good. It's food for thought.
Mary Buri:
It's totally food for thought. It's making me uncomfortable.
Johanna Almstead:
Really?
Mary Buri:
Yeah. It's making me uncomfortable that I can't come up with an answer. Then that's what it feels like. You need to come up with an answer.
Johanna Almstead:
[inaudible 00:54:50] come up with an answer.
Mary Buri:
Of course, we never need to do that. We never need to. There is a little, hey, something.
Johanna Almstead:
There's some journaling you need to be done.
Mary Buri:
There's some, perhaps some morning pages to work through there. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
I like that it's provoking you. This is good.
Mary Buri:
It's like what's something used to believe about yourself that you no longer? That's just a basic question. It's a good one too. I'm going to take that one with me.
Johanna Almstead:
Take it with you. You can get back to us. You can come back another time and share your answer.
Mary Buri:
That'll be my excuse.
Johanna Almstead:
But it's funny because some people have an immediate answer. They're like, "I was this and now I'm this and I am very clear," and other people have trouble with it too, so don't worry, you're not alone.
Mary Buri:
That's interesting.
Johanna Almstead:
Is there anything that you've said no to that you wish you had said yes to?
Mary Buri:
Oh, that's a good one. Yes. I think downtime. I think I do it every day, all day. I think I learned a couple of years ago with deep work in therapy that I just needed more downtime.
Johanna Almstead:
All these hours of talking about it and you just needed to not do anything.
Mary Buri:
You just need to stop right now. You need to stop. It's my biggest challenge still is to have time where I'm not being productive in some way, just being, and I wish I could be better at that. I wish I could say no to the things that get in the way of that. There's this energy that I have where I need to just be doing and doing and doing. Obviously, that gets to the core of who we are, if I feel like I need to fill it all up and to prove something, so just all that.
Johanna Almstead:
Keep me posted on how you figured that out because I suck at it.
Mary Buri:
I know.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm so uncomfortable.
Mary Buri:
Well, you have to schedule it. You have to schedule it and treat it like anything else that's a priority. It's the only way to do it.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, I'm also one of those people that's very extreme. I can get down with downtime on vacation like nobody's business. I am the laziest vacationer on the planet.
Mary Buri:
I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
I don't want to do anything. I want to lay horizontally, preferably in sand on a beach with some rosé. I don't want to do anything else. I want to have dinners with friends and stuff. But I can get down with it when it's scheduled and it's like there is time set aside for it and this is what I'm doing and I can do it. The rest of my life, I have a terrible time doing it.
I joke with a friend of mine and she's a very highly productive person, but her first instinct when she goes home, when you go into her house, she's on her couch. She sits down on her couch.
Mary Buri:
Good for her.
Johanna Almstead:
I was like, "I don't ever sit down on my couch."
Mary Buri:
Never, never.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm always hovering.
Mary Buri:
Except at night. I love Netflix at night with Chad. That's it. I don't know if you-
Johanna Almstead:
I don't even do it at night.
Mary Buri:
You don't even do that well?
Johanna Almstead:
I very rarely, very, very rarely. She's a very even keeled person and I was like, "Maybe it's because she sits down so much. Maybe she just takes those five minutes here and there."
Mary Buri:
No, seriously. Seriously. Because I think they have in weight, they weigh more than the other things in terms of filling us up. A few minutes of quiet is an hour of productivity in terms of our balance and our sense of well-being, I think. Here's a sneaky little way that I've incorporated it, and it's very silly because you might do it already. But when I eat meals alone, like breakfast and lunch, I don't do it with anything in front of me, like no phone. I've only started this a few months ago as this is something that I'm going to show up for myself for every day as a job. When I eat, I just sit and I might be sitting on the couch or I might go out onto the porch, but I don't have any phones. I don't have any news on. I don't have a book, I don't have anything. I just sit there. It's 10 minutes. It's 10 minutes and it's amazing what it'll do for you.
Johanna Almstead:
I know. I try and I'm not as dedicated in my practice of doing that as you are, but when I try, I'm very uncomfortable.
Mary Buri:
There you go. We're getting back to this is something telling us, this is telling us something.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes. I'm not good at it and I hate it. I want to love it. I'm good at it weirdly, if I'm in a restaurant. I actually can sit in a restaurant alone. I love eating alone in a restaurant.
Mary Buri:
I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
I think it's from years of business travel. I was so used to being in hotels and restaurants by myself and I'd love to go out to eat. I'm quite happy in a restaurant alone. I try really hard not to be on my phone because I think that's lame and I can soak it all in, but I think it's because I have things to look at and people to talk to. But if I'm alone at my kitchen counter or my dining room table or whatever, it's a lot harder for me.
Mary Buri:
I honestly would say anything else, if you can get through the discomfort for, if you can assign yourself a few sessions to do this, you absolutely will get through that discomfort and then you'll start reaping the way. It's like with anything, if we want to show up to workouts, if we want to show up to writing sessions, you have to do it a few times only because you're forcing yourself to. I'm telling you, those 10 minutes of looking up the trees and how the leaves have changed or looking out the window or the ceiling, it's a little bit of boredom, or your mind goes, "I've just been waiting my turn to share a concern I've had since 7:00 this morning." We block all that shit out. We block it out with the busyness. When the first moment of quiet is at 8:00 or 9:00 at night, that can be too late. 10 minutes.
Johanna Almstead:
What do you do, so what happens to me is when I sit down to do that, all I can think about is things that need to get done.
Mary Buri:
[inaudible 01:00:16].
Johanna Almstead:
Then I pick up my phone to make a list in my Notes app, and then all of a sudden I've got the list done. But now I'm also then scrolling on Instagram or checking the news or an email comes through or whatever. Maybe I need a pen and paper.
Mary Buri:
It's 10 minutes. It's 10 minutes.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe I need a pen and paper just nearby so I can put the thought-
Mary Buri:
No, no.
Johanna Almstead:
The thought is gone. You know perimenopause, the thought is gone if I don't put it down [inaudible 01:00:33].
Mary Buri:
But you know what? If the thought's gone, it'll come back at some point in the next day or so. If you can't give yourself 10 minutes of doing nothing twice a day, that's a red flag. That's what I was finding.
Johanna Almstead:
Totally.
Mary Buri:
That discomfort, if you can get through it, it's remarkable. It's just like, hello. If we have to be that productive, we've got to make some kind of a change. Then you go back like fueled. You're like, "Okay, now I can do all the things." 10 minutes quiet is so much more time productive.
Johanna Almstead:
I had a moment this morning when I was in the shower, which the shower is a good moment.
Mary Buri:
There you go.
Johanna Almstead:
Because it forces me to just be quiet.
Mary Buri:
I mean, some people do things in the shower, but I'm glad you don't. [inaudible 01:01:16].
Johanna Almstead:
I don't. Well, I normally don't. I really try hard not to.
Mary Buri:
I heard of people eating in the shower. Some people take their meals into the shower.
Johanna Almstead:
No, no.
Mary Buri:
I've heard of that. Next level.
Johanna Almstead:
Every once in a while I will listen, sometimes I'll listen to a podcast.
Mary Buri:
That's Chad.
Johanna Almstead:
I'll listen to an edit of this show that I need to get done. I'll do that in a shower, but I try not to. I like the shower. I like quiet. This morning we were in a time crunch. Babysitter was here to drive one kid, other kid is getting ready. Both need to be at two different places at the exact same time. There were questions about whether they were swimming at camp or whatever. My little one came in while I was in the shower and was trying to talk to me about it. She's like, "It was on that email, Mom. I don't know if we're swimming today or tomorrow or whatever." I was like, "Okay." I was like, "Go get my phone." She brought me my phone and I'm wiping my hands through the thing and I'm in the fucking shower.
Mary Buri:
In the fucking shower.
Johanna Almstead:
Opening emails being like, "I think the schedule ..." I was like, "What the fuck is happening?"
Mary Buri:
I've done that. I've gotten out of the shower to get the phone to text because I'm going to forget it in five minutes. I've been there. It's like this is a new low.
Johanna Almstead:
This is a rock bottom for me. I don't want to do this.
Mary Buri:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
Then I don't have my glasses on, so I can't really read it because I have old people eyes.
Mary Buri:
Same.
Johanna Almstead:
I can't really read the email and then the whole thing.
Mary Buri:
Same. You can't read it and you're like, exactly, because I'm in the shower, I shouldn't be able to [inaudible 01:02:37].
Johanna Almstead:
I shouldn't be doing this. This is fucking stupid.
Mary Buri:
It's stupid.
Johanna Almstead:
Everyone can wait a minute. This is good. You're inspiring me to pay more attention. It's also, I'm not even really that great about preparing myself a proper meal to sit down to anyway. I just pick and stuff.
Mary Buri:
That's like years of having your kids are younger. I feel like it took me years to get out of that, of not subsisting on grilled cheese crusts and leftover shit from their plate.
Johanna Almstead:
I just usually eat the weird things that are the edge of the nectarine that I cut up for their lunch. The bruised part that I cut off, I'll just eat that.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. You're like, that's good enough for me. It's not good enough for them, but it's good enough for me. It's fine.
Johanna Almstead:
I know.
Mary Buri:
Then you're like, "I'm kind of hungry, but not really." It gets all messed up.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm delirious. I don't know anymore. No, it's not. But I'm going to be better about it. Again when I'm in my new kitchen, I feel that that's going to change my life. I'm going to be a whole new person.
Mary Buri:
Obviously a new kitchen is all any of us need. That's all any of us need.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm going to be meditative and calm and well-nourished and super balanced. Now it's time for our lightning round of silly questions. We're going to get through this very quickly. Do not overthink this. I know you're a very thoughtful person. You don't have to be here. I added some extra ones specifically for you. What is your ultimate comfort food?
Mary Buri:
That is going to be a chicken pot pie or a chicken and dumplings. I'm like a chicken broth base anything but homemade chicken broth.
Johanna Almstead:
[inaudible 01:03:58]. Chicken broth and dough combo.
Mary Buri:
I don't mean to be [inaudible 01:04:00] there. Yes, anything with homemade chicken broth, but then with the flour and you got to thicken it up, so chicken pot pie. Actually that's I think everyone's in my family.
Johanna Almstead:
Really? You probably make an amazing one.
Mary Buri:
That's [inaudible 01:04:14]. I have a good pie crust. I do, so the pastry is. That's going to be it for me.
Johanna Almstead:
What did you want to be when you grew up when you were a little kid?
Mary Buri:
Oh my God. I already told you that was terrifying.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. You're right. You said you couldn't even think about it.
Mary Buri:
I was like, not only can I not pen myself in, but I don't even know how to answer that question. I have always wanted to be a writer.
Johanna Almstead:
Look, you just answered the question.
Mary Buri:
I've known that for a long time. I think literally everything I've ever done is to prove that I could write.
Johanna Almstead:
I can relate to that a lot. What is something you're really good at?
Mary Buri:
Besides gardening? I can't say gardening?
Johanna Almstead:
Well, we already know you're good at gardening.
Mary Buri:
I'm good at validating people's feelings, I think. I'm good at listening, I think, because I try really hard. It's really important to me to do that for my kids and to do it well.
Johanna Almstead:
That's really nice.
Mary Buri:
I think I do it pretty well, but I have a bunch of sisters, so we have a thing.
Johanna Almstead:
What is something you're really bad at?
Mary Buri:
Downtime.
Johanna Almstead:
There's a theme.
Mary Buri:
And pushups. I really, really, really want to do a good pushup and I keep telling-
Johanna Almstead:
You suck at pushups?
Mary Buri:
I suck. Then I keep being like, "You're going to do the modified and then you're going to do the walls and you're going to build up." Then I've gotten really strong and it's like weightlifting is really important to me. Charlie is just like, "You are pathetic. You can't do a pushup. You just need to train yourself." That's on my list, but I really want to do a good pushup. Can you do a good pushup? They're really hard.
Johanna Almstead:
I used to be able to. When I was very committed to yoga, I felt like I was very strong and I could do a proper pushup back then. Now, no.
Mary Buri:
I want to be able to do 10 in a row, not easily, but I can get to 10 and then want to die but I did it. That's my goal.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, I feel like you're very committed to things like that. You're going to be great.
Mary Buri:
I got to get my dad's obsession. I got to filter his obsession in there.
Johanna Almstead:
Maybe you should make yourself a goal that the first time you get to visit Charlie at college, you can do 10 pushups.
Mary Buri:
On his dorm room floor. I'm going to be like, "Come on guys. Who are these new friends? Let's watch the mom."
Johanna Almstead:
You're like, "Hey boys. This isn't weird at all."
Mary Buri:
Not weird at all. He's not going to be like, "Get the hell out of here. I'm not going to dinner with you."
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, you could do it when his friends aren't there maybe. Maybe it'd just be a private thing that you can prove to him that you're no chump when it comes to the pushups.
Mary Buri:
I like that though.
Johanna Almstead:
It gives you a date.
Mary Buri:
I like it.
Johanna Almstead:
What's your favorite word?
Mary Buri:
Nope. I can't answer that.
Johanna Almstead:
Come on. You're a writer.
Mary Buri:
I know. That's why I can't answer it.
Johanna Almstead:
It's like Sophie's Choice.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. If you gave me three, I'm a really good editor. That's what I'm good at. I'm really good at editing. If you gave me three words, I could tell you which one I like best but it's hard for me to think of the word I like.
Johanna Almstead:
Could you give me three words that you like? Maybe it's just not one word?
Mary Buri:
Nope. Still can't do it.
Johanna Almstead:
You can get back to me on that. Send me a text.
Mary Buri:
At least two things now. Homework.
Johanna Almstead:
This means you have to come back. Is least favorite word going to be a stumper for you too?
Mary Buri:
No, I really hate the word, what's the word we used to always use and now can even come to me because perimenopause, amazing. Do you remember when amazing had a moment where it was used literally? This was at least 10 years ago. I developed such a loathing of that word that I still can't use it everywhere.
Johanna Almstead:
That makes me sad. I like the word amazing and I really Amazing Grace is my favorite.
Mary Buri:
I don't think it's a bad word. I'm happy for anyone to use it. I'm just like, it got so overused at some point that I really don't like the word.
Johanna Almstead:
It's how I feel about authentic.
Mary Buri:
Oh yeah, I definitely said that word at some point in this hour.
Johanna Almstead:
I say it all the time and every time I'm like, "Ah fuck." Such a poser.
Mary Buri:
Shit.
Johanna Almstead:
These are specifically to you. What is your most favorite vegetable to grow?
Mary Buri:
That's so hard. That's so hard.
Johanna Almstead:
Harder than the words? I'm really getting you in your tough spot.
Mary Buri:
I love them so much. I love them so much. I think it might be onions. Is that so crazy? It might be onions. I love growing onions so much, or tomatoes. That's the easy answer. I love tomatoes, but onions are the thing that are still there when everything's gone by and they're inside on the counter just waiting. You start them in February so they take this really long time to grow and then when they're done, you're still not done. You've got to pull them out and cure them for two months. Then when they're done, they're ready, but whenever you're ready for them. I think they're just amazing. They're absolutely amazing.
Johanna Almstead:
You can't just pick an onion and eat it?
Mary Buri:
You absolutely can. But if you want to store, if you're going a ton of them, and I do, you have to cure them just like you have to cure garlic. I just think that the onion itself is super incredible. It starts from a little seed and it's like, I don't know. I love an onion. I love an onion.
Johanna Almstead:
An onion. Wow. I feel like it's a metaphor for your life.
Mary Buri:
It's the foundation of all cooking and it's not the thing that people think to grow. I think it's the surprisingly exciting thing when it does work in a garden and they're not that easy either. When it does work for a friend or a gardener that I'm working with, it's like the onion.
Johanna Almstead:
I feel like it's a bit of a metaphor for your personality too, because I feel like you're super patient and you're willing to wait for something good and you enjoy the process.
Mary Buri:
That feels good. I like that. I like that too. I like that.
Johanna Almstead:
I like that too. You're multi-layered.
Mary Buri:
[inaudible 01:09:26] it's all coming together.
Johanna Almstead:
There's so many good things. It's all [inaudible 01:09:30] you are a vegetable.
Mary Buri:
This is a Substack post. This is going to be one of my Substack posts.
Johanna Almstead:
It totally should be.
Mary Buri:
I'm going to give you full credit for it.
Johanna Almstead:
Thank you.
Mary Buri:
I'm already flushing it out in my head.
Johanna Almstead:
I love it.
Mary Buri:
I love it.
Johanna Almstead:
What is your least favorite vegetable to grow?
Mary Buri:
That's also tricky because I love them all, but these days, kale, because it really pisses me off because the bugs get them just as it's starting to look gorgeous.
Johanna Almstead:
Look gorgeous and amazing.
Mary Buri:
Then a myriad of different bugs get them and I'm a real wuss with bugs.
Johanna Almstead:
I don't like the bugs either. That's maybe why I don't love the garden.
Mary Buri:
The ones that are easy to control, great. But the ones that are just going to be on the leaf no matter what, you're throwing away so much. You're composting so much kale. It makes me mad. I'm like, "I did so much work." That one maybe, even though I'll never not grow it, I love it.
Johanna Almstead:
I swear to God, the kale that we grow in our garden tastes totally different than [inaudible 01:10:18].
Mary Buri:
Totally different [inaudible 01:10:19].
Johanna Almstead:
Totally different than the kale that you buy in grocery store.
Mary Buri:
Herbs are that way too, especially the leafy ones, like a parsley. You think parsley is so boring because you're eating store bought parsley. Parsley in the garden, especially when it's cool in the spring and definitely in the fall, it's so sweet because turn it out for just a second, vegetables when it gets cooler, they make sugars to protect themselves, which is why everything gets sweeter when it's cold.
Johanna Almstead:
So crazy.
Mary Buri:
Parsley actually tastes like an entirely different thing than what you get at the grocery store.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, I feel like even the romaine lettuce that we grew was like, it tastes so delicious and tasty.
Mary Buri:
Yes. It tastes so different. Think of how old the stuff is that we get at the grocery store.
Johanna Almstead:
I know.
Mary Buri:
It's [inaudible 01:10:56] weeks old, which is fine, that's fine. But we have such a luxury of eating it. It's like the thing I say. Two things I do at the dinner table. All right guys, let's count the vegetables on the dinner plate. They're like, "Jesus, Mom."
Johanna Almstead:
He's like, "Mom, I'm going to college. I don't need to count vegetables anymore."
Mary Buri:
Just shut up. I need to count the things that came out of our garden. You missed one. Then the other thing I always say is, "It was growing 10 minutes ago. I can't get over that. You were growing 10 minutes ago and now I'm eating you." Stop. Stop it. Right?
Johanna Almstead:
That's crazy. That was part of our garden journey.
Mary Buri:
The power.
Johanna Almstead:
The power of like, oh my god, what this.
Mary Buri:
Amazing.
Johanna Almstead:
Least favorite food. It doesn't have to be a vegetable. What are just you're never eating, deal breaker food? No way?
Mary Buri:
Pork, like a pork loin. I don't like pig. I don't like it.
Johanna Almstead:
Even if it's cured into a prosciutto or something?
Mary Buri:
That's amazing. It's like she knew right where [inaudible 01:11:48].
Johanna Almstead:
It's like a different thing. Right?
Mary Buri:
It's a different thing.
Johanna Almstead:
Best piece of advice you've ever received?
Mary Buri:
It's from my mom who I lost last summer and I need a second.
Johanna Almstead:
Take a breath.
Mary Buri:
Shortly before I lost her, I was going through this medical stuff a couple months before we very suddenly lost her. I was recovering from a surgery and I was like, "Oh my God." It was about onions. I was like, "Mom." It was early March and I had her on the phone and she's like, "How's it going?" I was like, "Oh good. I was up for two hours today. I got my onions planted." She's like, "What? You're recovering from major surgery? What?" I said, "Well, I had to. I had to. It's a time thing. I had to." She was just like, "I'm just going to say this and take it however you want to, but maybe sometimes you could just do less."
Johanna Almstead:
So simple.
Mary Buri:
Do less. That has been part of the last several years of being like, "I'm going to create this thing. I'm going to suffer from imposter syndrome and thinking it's good enough or thinking that I have any business being here. And so I'm going to hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle and not miss anything." She's like, "Just do less sometimes. Just do less." That was a good one.
Johanna Almstead:
Thanks mama.
Mary Buri:
Thanks mama.
Johanna Almstead:
That's a good one. I feel like I'm learning that less in the career stuff and more in the social stuff.
Mary Buri:
I like that. It's so true there.
Johanna Almstead:
You don't need to go to that thing. Maybe that's just not ... Is it going to fuel me or am I going to come home more drained? If it feels like it's going to be at all not fortifying, then I'm doing less.
Mary Buri:
And when we feel like we can't say no, again, what's fueling that fear? Is it this middle school type of lingering thing of they won't think I like them or I won't fit in or this or that. It's like probably not. We're grown ass women who have our own boundaries. For me, when someone says no to something, I'm like, "Nice."
Johanna Almstead:
Good for you.
Mary Buri:
Yes, good. I never take it personally and I don't need a reason.
Johanna Almstead:
Especially if they're like-
Mary Buri:
You don't need to tell people the reason why you're saying no. That's important too. I'm not going to do that this time, but I'll see you next time.
Johanna Almstead:
There's a few people in my life that I can tell that bristles with them when I'm like, "No, we're not going to do that." I'm not giving any explanation. I'm not giving any apology. I'm not doing anything, just I'm not explaining it away. You can tell it's just not satisfying to them.
Mary Buri:
Yes. The challenge in that moment is hold your ground. Don't explain. You can do this.
Johanna Almstead:
The old me people pleaser person would've been like, "Well, because we have this and then we have this," and justifying it at the wazoo. Now I'm like, "No, I'm just not going [inaudible 01:14:46]."
Mary Buri:
Love that.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm just not going to engage.
Mary Buri:
I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm just going to lob that one out there and let it float and see what happens.
Mary Buri:
Love that.
Johanna Almstead:
If your personality were a flavor, what would it be?
Mary Buri:
I'm going to say raspberry because I love raspberry anything. I don't really know how to connect it to myself. These questions are hard.
Johanna Almstead:
I know. I'm stumping you.
Mary Buri:
You are. But I like raspberry. What's yours? I want to know what yours is so I can understand this.
Johanna Almstead:
No one has asked me. I've been waiting for someone to throw back these questions back at me.
Mary Buri:
You cannot ask a question that you can't answer yourself? Go for it.
Johanna Almstead:
I can answer it. Lemonhead candy.
Mary Buri:
Oh shit.
Johanna Almstead:
So sour.
Mary Buri:
Also so sweet.
Johanna Almstead:
So sweet.
Mary Buri:
When you get to the inside.
Johanna Almstead:
Not for everyone.
Mary Buri:
Not for everyone.
Johanna Almstead:
Kind of surprising because you're like, "What's inside?" It's weird and gooey but yummy and a little provoking.
Mary Buri:
Yes. I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
They were my favorite candy when I was a kid.
Mary Buri:
I love that. Well, how would you answer that for me then? A flavor for me?
Johanna Almstead:
A flavor?
Mary Buri:
Part of it's got to be like makes everyone think things are easy, even though I'm not trying to do that because shit is not easy.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, raspberries are good. They look so pretty, but they're very delicate in their nature.
Mary Buri:
I like that.
Johanna Almstead:
Right?
Mary Buri:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
You can't let them sit too long. They look all perfect and [inaudible 01:16:07] easy.
Mary Buri:
The raspberries themselves are super delicate. But the vines, man, they're pricker bushes.
Johanna Almstead:
See? They're not necessarily easy to harvest.
Mary Buri:
No, they're very hard and to [inaudible 01:16:17].
Johanna Almstead:
I think your initial answer is right.
Mary Buri:
You know what else? They reproduce like crazy.
Johanna Almstead:
Four kids later.
Mary Buri:
I gave that answer. It turned out to be good.
Johanna Almstead:
See?
Mary Buri:
All right, I'll take it.
Johanna Almstead:
Trust your gut.
Mary Buri:
Trust it.
Johanna Almstead:
Trust your gut on these. What was your first paid job?
Mary Buri:
I'm not going to say babysitting because that's the truth. The real first job after that was pie maker. It wasn't homemade pie maker. It was like I worked at a diner where I was half host and then I stayed behind the counter and slapped together pre-made crust with chocolate filling and whipped cream on top.
Johanna Almstead:
Like those cans of filling?
Mary Buri:
Yes, like the apple pie cans and the cherry. We got to take one slice home every single day. I got sick of eating them myself so I would gift them to different members of my family, but I kind of loved that job.
Johanna Almstead:
Here's a shitty pie that I made.
Mary Buri:
Here's a shitty pie that I made it. I made it. Here you go. Everyone was like [inaudible 01:17:05].
Johanna Almstead:
That checks. I feel like that makes a lot of sense for you.
Mary Buri:
It does.
Johanna Almstead:
That's very on brand for you while it's sort of like the beginnings of food, the whole thing. Last supper. You are leaving this body and this earth tomorrow. No drama. It's fine. It's all going to be good. What are you eating tonight?
Mary Buri:
It's going to be a really good salad, but not complicated, so like a dense leafy salad with a super light vinaigrette and probably a fillet with maybe some really good bread and butter. We're keeping it simple, man.
Johanna Almstead:
I like the bread and butter. Are you drinking anything with this meal?
Mary Buri:
Yes. I think it's going to be a cocktail and I don't know which one yet, but before the meal. What cocktail is it going to be? It's going to be something with vodka in it, I think.
Johanna Almstead:
Is it like a martini or is it like a mixed dream?
Mary Buri:
It's a martini. A martini is my favorite. It's just my favorite. A very dirty, very dirty martini.
Johanna Almstead:
I've perfected my martini recipe and when again, my dream life starts and my kitchen's done, I'm going to invite you over for martinis and you're going to bring some vegetables and we're going to cook it together. But my martini is the fucking best martini on the planet.
Mary Buri:
Oh my gosh. Tell me why.
Johanna Almstead:
I'm now to the point of I have friends who now text me and I have to voice record the order so that they can play it for the bartenders because that's how fucking good it is.
Mary Buri:
Could we do, I want to do on Substack when I start to get my feet wet and start to get comfortable with new formats and stuff, I want to do guest cooking and stuff, just little things like that. I would love to have you on and you make us a martini.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes, please.
Mary Buri:
We can do it in person or you could even do it, I don't know what things are going to look like yet, but it would be so fun to be like you in your kitchen, me and my kitchen. You're showing us all how to make the martini so people can stop asking you.
Johanna Almstead:
100%.
Mary Buri:
I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes. That sounds so fun. That's my favorite thing to do. Another thing that I've been doing, which is really fun, is I just hosted a dinner party at my friend's house because my house is not hostable right now.
Mary Buri:
The kitchen.
Johanna Almstead:
That was so, so fun because I just brought all the ingredients and hosted at her house.
Mary Buri:
I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
Another thing that was really fun was a friend of mine had me visit her house in the Hamptons. It was in the middle of the summer and she had been hosting all the time and stuff. It was actually, I had been telling her about this recipe and she was like, "Oh my god, that sounds delicious." She texted me earlier in the week and said, "What are the ingredients for your pasta puttanesca?" I gave it to her and then she had bought all the ingredients and they were all on the counter when I got there Friday night. She opens a bottle of wine and she's like, "I'm going to sit here while you make the pasta."
Mary Buri:
Oh my gosh. I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
It was so lovely.
Mary Buri:
It was like you loved it? I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
I loved it. I was sort of surprised. I was like, "Oh, I hadn't expected this." She sat at the counter and we drank our wine and I cooked and she watched me cook and we chatted and I talked her through it. It was like having my own little personal cooking show.
Mary Buri:
Own cooking show. How did you do? How did it feel?
Johanna Almstead:
It was so nice. It was such a good move on her part to ease the burden of hosting because when you have a beach house, you're hosting all the time. It was so lovely as a guest to feel like you could do something. It's hard sometimes to bring a dish because you're going to sleep over whatever.
Mary Buri:
This feels very even like you're giving the place, I'm giving the food, we're both comfortable exactly where we are. I love this. I love it.
Johanna Almstead:
It was so fun. I highly recommend the inviting people into your kitchen and doing it. I think that'd be really fun for Substack.
Mary Buri:
So fun.
Johanna Almstead:
Have you ever had a moment in your life when you have had to eat your words?
Mary Buri:
Yeah, I'm sure bazillions. I'm trying to think of a good one that I can share. All right. I'm going to tell one that's really embarrassing because it's the one I can think of. It happened a very long time ago.
Johanna Almstead:
That's the caveat.
Mary Buri:
I was very dumb back then.
Johanna Almstead:
Disclaimer.
Mary Buri:
But not long ago enough because I was probably 20. I said to one of my sisters, TM, I saw TM somewhere and I said to one of them, "TM. Wow. They make a lot of things, don't they?"
Johanna Almstead:
Oh my God. That's amazing.
Mary Buri:
I just shared that with you. It's one of the most embarrassing moments of my life.
Johanna Almstead:
Especially because you're like a words person and you're a writer.
Mary Buri:
Exactly. It gets worse because a few years later, my brother at my wedding-
Johanna Almstead:
Oh no.
Mary Buri:
... shared this story with just everyone who's important to me in my world.
Johanna Almstead:
That was an embarrassing [inaudible 01:21:20].
Mary Buri:
I had to eat those. It happens.
Johanna Almstead:
It happens. It happens to all of us.
Mary Buri:
We become dumb sometimes. It happens.
Johanna Almstead:
It happens. If you had to eat one food for the rest of your life all day, every day, don't worry about nutritional sustenance. It's just going to sustain you. What would it be?
Mary Buri:
It would be a vegetable of some kind. Probably, oh God, I hate these questions.
Johanna Almstead:
I know. You're really-
Mary Buri:
Because you [inaudible 01:21:42] questions. Right. You got to be like it's not nutrition. It will always taste good, even though you think it's not going to by day three, it's always going to taste good. Maybe good homemade chicken broth. Is that disgusting?
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, you'd be so healthy.
Mary Buri:
I think it's a whole world. I told you I love anything with chicken broth in it.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, I feel like if chicken broth is your staple and if you were allowed to add things in, basically you're good. I really don't know if that's a good question.
Mary Buri:
You could get by with it for while without getting too bored.
Johanna Almstead:
Where's your happy place?
Mary Buri:
It's in the garden. It's in the garden.
Johanna Almstead:
Shocker. What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world?
Mary Buri:
I wear clothes that make me feel pretty.
Johanna Almstead:
What makes you feel pretty?
Mary Buri:
I don't know. I guess that depends. Not a dress.
Johanna Almstead:
See, I think the whole open-ended thing that we've talked a lot about today is a real thing. It's hard for you to commit.
Mary Buri:
It's very hard for me to commit to things. I've known this is a thing about myself because it's like there's this perceived threat that I know as a fully functioning whole person is not there. But there's parts of me that are like if you get penned in there, you might never get out.
Johanna Almstead:
If you say a dress, you're going to have to wear dresses for the rest of your life.
Mary Buri:
Or that you will second guess that or you will be like, "Oh, it didn't quite capture." I'm like a crazy perfectionist.
Johanna Almstead:
Is it like a perfectionist thing?
Mary Buri:
Yes, but debilitating. I've had to work with that really, really hard. Part of that is sort of like if you don't get it just right, there's going to be something bad that happens and it's crazy. For me, when it happens, even on this level that has zero, you couldn't get any lower of a bar. You couldn't. What's your favorite flavor? You couldn't. The fact that I see it popping up as a 47-year-old woman, I'm like, "There's something there. She's part of me. She's welcome to be here."
Johanna Almstead:
We're going to give her a little pat on the shoulder and we're going to just welcome her and just support her through this process.
Mary Buri:
We support her through. She's here. I'm listening to you and by talking about you, I've gotten away with not answering the question.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. What is your favorite, this is going to trip you up too. What is your favorite meal to cook?
Mary Buri:
I love to cook dinner. Dinner.
Johanna Almstead:
Do you have a go-to dinner that you know is a crowd pleaser every time?
Mary Buri:
No. I've only recently started meal planning in the last couple of years, which is a lot since I've been a mom for a long time. I win things a lot, but a protein, a vegetable.
Johanna Almstead:
Very balanced.
Mary Buri:
I make a lot of food, but I don't know. I can't commit, Jo. I can't commit.
Johanna Almstead:
Can't commit. Well, also, I feel like you are at the whim of the garden too, so you're like, "Oh my peas are perfect today so we got to eat some peas."
Mary Buri:
Oh my God. Our grocery carts in the summer are embarrassing. It's like [inaudible 01:24:27], bread. No vegetables.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, you don't need them. What's your go-to coping mechanism on a bad day?
Mary Buri:
Parts work, and I like working with this, I don't know if you've heard of Internal Family Systems.
Johanna Almstead:
Internal Family Systems? Yes.
Mary Buri:
That's my go-to. Parts. I've just talked about my parts before. I've tried many, many, many things. That's the thing for me.
Johanna Almstead:
I love it. It explains so much, I feel like. What is one thing, oh God, this one's really going to fuck you up.
Mary Buri:
Shit. It's going to fuck me up.
Johanna Almstead:
What is one thing you know for sure right now in this moment, it's only this moment and it's only what you know for sure. That's it. Don't overthink it.
Mary Buri:
That I am good and true and exactly who I'm supposed to be, that there's nothing that there's nothing I can do to actually fuck that up.
Johanna Almstead:
That was easy.
Mary Buri:
I know that. That's easy.
Johanna Almstead:
I love that. Let's tell the audience where people can find you.
Mary Buri:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
On Instagram?
Mary Buri:
At Mars Kitchen Garden.
Johanna Almstead:
Substack?
Mary Buri:
It's going to be the same,
Johanna Almstead:
Mars Kitchen Garden.
Mary Buri:
Mars Kitchen Garden.
Johanna Almstead:
Website?
Mary Buri:
Same thing.
Johanna Almstead:
Are you on TikTok? You're not on TikTok?
Mary Buri:
I'm not. I don't even have the app.
Johanna Almstead:
I was actually looking for your TikTok yesterday and you're not on it, and I understand the apprehension. I feel like people would eat up your content on TikTok.
Mary Buri:
That's good to hear, but I'd have to make more. Right?
Johanna Almstead:
No, you could repurpose most of what you do. But it's like a whole different thing. It is a different country, different planet.
Mary Buri:
It really is different than Instagram. Which do you prefer and why? In what ways?
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, I love Instagram, so it's been hard for me to try to delve into the TikTok world, but there is something very freeing about TikTok. It doesn't have to be as perfect. In fact, the super overly produced stuff doesn't do well.
Mary Buri:
Which I'm finding in Instagram too. Now, it's like people don't want that shit at all anymore.
Johanna Almstead:
It's the backlash from all the influencers and stuff. There's this weirdly lovely supportive community on TikTok that I had no idea was happening.
Mary Buri:
People are nicer. You're telling me people are nicer on TikTok?
Johanna Almstead:
People are nicer. I mean, sure there's like trolls and weirdos, but there's just this, we're all in it together. Everybody can do this. There's space for everyone. I'm making money. You should make money. There's this very, it's very cool. To me, that feels really nice and it's very surprising and there's all kinds of weird avenues you can go down, but there's this sort of community that feels different and less judgy.
Mary Buri:
I love that.
Johanna Almstead:
And very like, "Hey, I'll support your button if you support mine." There's this whole thing. I think that I feel like the gardening people on TikTok-
Mary Buri:
They would watch?
Johanna Almstead:
They would watch you religiously. They'd be very into it.
Mary Buri:
Just set a camera on the corner of the garden, one of those real time things?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. You could do so much cool stuff.
Mary Buri:
That's [inaudible 01:27:19].
Johanna Almstead:
Anyway, so she's not on TikTok yet guys.
Mary Buri:
Not yet.
Johanna Almstead:
But stay tuned. You heard it here first. We'll let you know when we get the update. Thank you so much for taking so much time, for sharing your story, for sharing your insight, and just sharing this time with me. Thank you.
Mary Buri:
Oh my God. So welcome. I love what you're doing. I've listened to all of them and just keep doing it. It gets better with every single one.
Johanna Almstead:
You think?
Mary Buri:
You're killing it. I do. You're a natural.
Johanna Almstead:
You're very sweet. Thank you so much. That was so fun. Thank you all for tuning in. As always, we are so grateful that you continue to listen to us and listen to our stories. If you're enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to it. Please download it. Actually, the downloads really matter apparently, so please make sure you download it. Please share it with your friends, with your community, with your mom friends, with your office friends, whoever it is. You can text it to people or you can share it over social media. Please follow us on social media. We are at Eat My Words, the podcast, on both Instagram and TikTok. As you know, we're trying to grow this community and those numbers matter as we grow our community, so anything you can do to support, we are eternally grateful.
I'm in those comments, guys, on Instagram and TikTok, so please get in there and tell us what you want to hear us talk about. Tell us what you're cooking up. I'm also always looking for recipe ideas for my guests, so tell us that too.
As always, we're so grateful for you and we'll see you next time. This Eat My Words podcast has been created and directed by me, Johanna Almstead. Our producer is Sophy Drouin. Our audio editor is Isabel Robertson, and our brand manager is Mila Bushna.