Eat My Words

Johanna Almstea...: Hi everyone. I am thinking about what I'm going to make my next guest for dinner, and I think I'm going to keep it super easy. I'm going to do some crostini. So I'm going to get some beautiful baguette and I'm just going to toast it real quick so it gets crispy and brush it with a little olive oil. And then I think I'm going to do just a little mix of a few different crostinis, maybe one that's like goat cheese with a little sliced fig, maybe one that's just like a prosciutto and mozzarella with a little balsamic drizzle on it. And maybe like a little smoked salmon with chives and creme fraiche. Just some little nibbles. I'm going to open a really cold, beautiful bottle of rosé. I'm feeling those vibes.
And I think for dinner I'm going to keep it kind of simple and summery because we're getting into the summer now. I'm going to do a chicken Milanese, so like a breaded and fried, beautiful chicken cutlet, like pounded nice and thin and breaded. And then over just like an arugula salad that's tossed really lightly with a little olive oil, maybe a little lemon. And then just some fresh garden tomatoes chopped on top with a little, I'll throw a little basil in there too. Just super easy, super light, super yummy and fun. My guest tonight is so fun, so smart, so great, so good at what she does, and I'm so excited for you to get to know her. So let's dig in.
Hello everyone and welcome to Eat My Words. I am really, really, really excited for today's episode. Our guest today is an accomplished, ready-to-wear and swimwear designer for iconic brands such as Kate Spade, Millie, and Shoshanna with over 20 years of fashion industry experience. She's now the founder and creative director of her own brand Change of Scenery, which is a luxury, sustainable swim and resort wear brand. At Change of Scenery she has built a world where a woman can put on her bathing suit and feel like the best version of herself. Where she feels sexy, but not overexposed, comfortable, but not invisible. Her brand has been featured in media outlets, including Vogue, Women's Wear Daily, Oprah, and many more, and is available at Saks and select specialty stores around the U.S.
She is also a wife, a sister, a daughter, and a mother of three kids. She's a dance mom, a soccer mom, and a basketball mom. She is deeply, deeply entrenched in the reality of balancing motherhood and entrepreneurship. And I'm so grateful that she's taking time out of her insane schedule to sit and talk with me for a bit. She's an amazing champion of fellow female entrepreneurs and is the ultimate cheerleader. She's also one of the most positive and hardworking people I know. Jamie Banks, welcome to Eat My Words.
Jamie Banks: Thank you so much for having me. I love your podcast and everybody such a huge fan.
Johanna Almstea...: Aw, thanks. I love having you here on my podcast. This is fun.
Jamie Banks: This is so fun. Yes.
Johanna Almstea...: So I like to always start off by telling the listener sort of how we know each other. And so I was trying to do the math, and correct me if I'm wrong, but we've known each other for probably 15 years?
Jamie Banks: I started at Kate Spade after you, right? In 2006, 2007.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. So yeah, 2025. Whoa.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, wow.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. And then you left Kate Spade. So we worked together for a little while at Kate Spade, you were on the design team and me in the PR team. And then you left and went to work for Shoshanna and for Millie, right? Those were the two places that you went, and then you came back to Kate and I was still there.
Jamie Banks: Sure did. Yeah. You sure were.
Johanna Almstea...: I sure was. Then we got to work together again about three years ago when you were launching this brand and you hired me to help you with your brand work.
Jamie Banks: I did.
Johanna Almstea...: It was like one of my favorite projects ever.
Jamie Banks: Thank goodness I hired you to do the brand work.
Johanna Almstea...: Thank God. I mean-
Jamie Banks: More on that later. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: And now look at you, you have a brand that's like a full-blown success. Congratulations.
Jamie Banks: Everything we hypothetically talked about-
Johanna Almstea...: Has happened.
Jamie Banks: Came true, has happened.
Johanna Almstea...: So for listeners, one of the things that I did with Jamie as a consultant was sort of develop the ethos of the brand with her and really get her to articulate what this brand was about and what it wasn't about and who the target customer was and all that. And I think you've stuck to it so, so clearly. And I think that's the key to half of your success is you've been so focused on your customer and-
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Getting the right product to her.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, thank you.
Johanna Almstea...: I am a customer, by the way. I only wear Change of Scenery bathing suits now. Literally.
Jamie Banks: You better.
Johanna Almstea...: The little short and shirt sets, like the little camp shirt kind of thing with the matching shorts I love. So I have so many things I want to talk to you about today. But I think that I am so proud of you and I'm so impressed by you. And we really did, we sat in my office and sat in your house and dreamt up what this was going to be. I mean, you dreamt it up, I helped you put it on paper really. And it's here. It's so crazy.
Jamie Banks: It's here.
Johanna Almstea...: I know.
Jamie Banks: Well, I dreamt it up with not as much focus.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: I would say you focused it in and put it on paper, so I will always be grateful for that. You are amazing at what you do, it was so fun.
Johanna Almstea...: Thank you. We had a good time doing it. Okay, so I always like to start with the question, where did your journey begin? When you think of where you are now, where did it begin?
Jamie Banks: I always loved fashion, but I think a lot of young girls love fashion. But I don't know if you know this about me, I had some very major jaw surgery when I was 16.
Johanna Almstea...: I do not know this about you.
Jamie Banks: I sort of had similar to Jay Leno, like where my chin stuck out a lot. My jaw, I had an underbite. And now it's different. They use Invisalign now, but at the time, you had to have this very major surgery when you were roughly 16 and stopped growing, and they broke your jaw and you were wired shut for three months. And I was homeschooled for three months. And my mom said, "We need to find you something to do before this surgery." And long story short, she got me a sewing teacher before this surgery and I learned how to sew. And that was how I fell in love with fashion design.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God, I love that story. I did not know that.
Jamie Banks: That was so wild. And now I could have just had Invisalign, maybe I'd be like a dentist or something.
Johanna Almstea...: Right-
Jamie Banks: Just be something else.
Johanna Almstea...: Like an engineer or something totally different.
Jamie Banks: Totally. A publicist, I don't know. Yes, I fell in love with fashion junior year of high school. And then went to undergrad for fashion design, set up a sewing machine in my sorority house in the back of the kitchen-
Johanna Almstea...: No way.
Jamie Banks: Made everybody's formal dresses the whole time. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Their in-house, in sorority designer and seamstress.
Jamie Banks: Yes. My sorority sisters had. Well, I would make them two different things. I would make them formal outfits like ball gown skirts and I don't know, these wild outfits. And then I would cut up vintage T-shirts that we would get at the Ithaca vintage shops and I would lease them up and bedazzle them and whatever. And honestly, I think I really miss the boat on that business because I think now they would be sold to like, I don't know, somewhere cool like [inaudible 00:07:53]. I don't know-
Johanna Almstea...: Probably for like $6,000 a T-shirt.
Jamie Banks: A hundred percent. I was like 600, 700 I think. But yeah, I wonder if anybody still has one.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God, you have to. If you were a holder of one of Jamie ... Well, it would've been Mihlrad back then, right?
Jamie Banks: It's Jamie Mihlrad, yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Original. Please let us know. Please tell us.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. And even now I'll meet moms on the flag football team or something and they'll be like, "I remember you, you were always sewing in the kitchen in the sorority house." I'm like, "I'm still doing that. It's just I've another room in my house."
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, you're like, "I'm going next to the kitchen."
Jamie Banks: Totally. Actually, sorry I missed this. I went to Cornell for undergrad, which I loved. I loved a big school. I loved sorority life and all the things, but I knew that I wanted to get a little bit more of a fashion education. And so I went to grad school in San Francisco and have a master's degree in knitwear in sweaters.
Johanna Almstea...: You have a master's in sweaters?
Jamie Banks: I do.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my god, I didn't even know that existed.
Jamie Banks: It does, yeah. Actually after project now you can get a master's in sweaters a lot of places.
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing.
Jamie Banks: At the time I had to go to California. And then yeah, I had a great time in San Francisco. San Francisco changes you, by the way. Have you ever lived there?
Johanna Almstea...: No. I lived in L.A. but I never lived in San Francisco.
Jamie Banks: Oh, when you were an actress?
Johanna Almstea...: Mm-hmm.
Jamie Banks: I just found out about that in the podcast. I'm just like a girl from Long Island. I think living in San Francisco, everybody there is so nice first of all. When I first moved to San Francisco, like in New York we'd look people up and down. And there would be girls in the bars in San Francisco, and I would think they were giving me dirty looks, but then they would be like, "Oh my God, you look so cute. Where's your outfit from?" And I was like, oh, you were just being nice. And people would run half marathons all the time and-
Johanna Almstea...: It's very sporty, very sporty city.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, it was nice. I became a better person by living in San Francisco.
Johanna Almstea...: How long did you live there?
Jamie Banks: Three and a half years.
Johanna Almstea...: The master's program was three and a half years?
Jamie Banks: Mm-hmm.
Johanna Almstea...: Wow.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: That's a long time to study sweaters.
Jamie Banks: I'm very good at it. You didn't know, but I'm very good at it.
Johanna Almstea...: I love that you started a brand that doesn't barely have anywhere.
Jamie Banks: It doesn't make any sweaters. No.
Johanna Almstea...: No sweaters.
Jamie Banks: Not a one.
Johanna Almstea...: Not a one. Thank God for that master's.
Jamie Banks: Totally. I will say though, the director of the master's program in San Francisco, his name's Simon Ungless. I mean, there were two people in my life that I beyond lucky to have as mentors, and it was Simon and then Deborah, who we both worked for. And Simon, sweaters aside, he was a working professional, which was very different than Cornell because at Cornell they're all PhDs and textile science and things like that, which is amazing also, but wasn't very current or modern. And at the Academy of Art in San Francisco, they were all working professionals. And Simon, I mean he's amazing. He was best friends and also working partners with Alexander McQueen. And he has done everything and worked with everyone in fashion.
And the most important thing he ever taught me, which I carry into every single collection I still do today, and I always think is the real sign of how a teacher, a professor can really impact a student from our kid's age all the way through college was the theory behind developing a collection. And that it doesn't really matter if someone's sketches are amazing or ... There was this girl in my class that had these unbelievable sketches. She could have been an illustrator and he would always bash her in the critiques and praise mine. And I went up to him after once and I said, "Well, mine don't look as good as hers." He's like, "Yeah, but if yours was hanging in a store, people would buy it."
And I never forgot that. You can get very wrapped up as a creative person in being the best at sketching or coloring or whatever, none of that matters because ultimately it's real product in a real store. And you just have to be able to get your idea across and presented. And it has to be a well thought out, well rounded collection that people would actually wear. And other students in class would design these wackadoo things, like crazy after I'm explaining my sorority outfits, but these crazy ball gowns or whatever. And he would always be like, "There's no one to buy that."
Johanna Almstea...: Well, I think it's the never-ending discussion around art and commerce, right? Like art for art's sake, and then art for the sake of having someone actually purchase it and wear it or hang it in their home or whatever, right? I think it's just sort of an ongoing battle for creative people. I think many people.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: I think for you, it seems like you've always been, but I was going to say you're one of the more like, and this is some people I think would take this as a bad thing, but you're a commercial designer, you understand-
Jamie Banks: Yeah. Yes.
Johanna Almstea...: That people need to wear it and it needs to work in their life and it needs to function and feel good and make your customer feel good. And there are lots of designers that are fabulously grandiose, but they're not really designing anything that anyone actually wants to wear.
Jamie Banks: And you need them and you need me.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: Because you need someone to be the tippy top to be inspiring everyone to be more of an artist, let's say, than a commercial designer. But yeah, I love, there's no greater joy for me than seeing just a normal person on the street that I don't know, wearing something that I designed and looking happy and joyful and confident in it and all the things. I've never been driven by being excited that it was coming down a runway, that doesn't do it for me.
Johanna Almstea...: Doesn't do it for you, but someone walking down the street does.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: That's my runway.
Johanna Almstea...: The world is my runway.
Jamie Banks: The world is my runway. Totally. Anyways, then I moved to Milan straight from grad school and I worked for Carla Sozzani at Corso Como Dieci. She was the guest of honor. Her and Azzedine Alaia were the guest of honor at my graduate fashion show. And one girl won an internship with Azzedine and I won the internship with Carla. And they were best friends, do you know that?
Johanna Almstea...: No, I didn't know that.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, Carla and Azzedine and Franca, when she was alive, they were best friends. And I moved to Milan to intern for Carla and sort of took the Corso Como logo, which is iconic in the fashion world, but anyone who doesn't know what Corso Como Dieci and Milan is would think it was the Target logo, I always think. Right, it's like a bullseye.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: And she didn't really know what to do with her little American intern, but she put me to work, basically for anyone who's never been to Corso Como, I guess they say it was the first multi-brand, super designer experience. It's like a women's store-
Johanna Almstea...: It's not like a world department store-
Jamie Banks: No.
Johanna Almstea...: It's like a-
Jamie Banks: It's smaller.
Johanna Almstea...: A specialty store, but it has pretty much the highest end designers in the world, I would think, right?
Jamie Banks: Yeah, in the world. And it's a women's store and a men's store and a home store, an art gallery, a very exclusive hotel that's called Three Rooms that has three rooms. And so people would come as tourists destination and they couldn't actually afford to buy anything. So she said, take all this artwork from her boyfriend who was an artist, Kris Ruhs, and apply it to things. So tote bags and sneakers and all these things. And she was best friends with everyone, so she would be like, "Let's make black cardigans, let's make a black cardigan that's like branded Corso Como." This is before everyone started doing collabs and-
Johanna Almstea...: Like merch, like swaggy kind of merch. Yeah.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. If I really look back, it was like the original collaborations, I guess. And she would say, "All right, let's do black cardigans. No one's making the black cardigan." And she would call me [inaudible 00:15:08] team and be like, "Prada makes the best cardigans, make a cardigan with them." And then she would say, "Let's make tote bags. Marni makes the best tote bags. Okay, we'll call that and we'll make tote bags with Marni." It was really amazing. I was too young to appreciate it actually, I was-
Johanna Almstea...: But in hindsight you're like, "Holy shit, what was I doing?"
Jamie Banks: Yes. I mean, she took me to the owner of Superga's house. It was in Milan. It was an apartment in Milan, and they had a full basketball court like in the apartment. And they were like, "Which sneakers do you want to put your logo on?" And I was like, "What's Superga?" Look, I was too young, so I need to do it again, I think. I'm going to leave my family-
Johanna Almstea...: Leave my family and go back and do that now. Leave my family for a few months.
Jamie Banks: A hundred percent.
Johanna Almstea...: How long were you there?
Jamie Banks: Just like a year and a half. It was before Wi-Fi everywhere and cell phones that really worked anywhere. And I still had to go to an internet cafe a lot of the time to talk to my parents, it was 2005. Which feels like there should have been more. That doesn't seem that far away, but it was 20 years ago.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, also, I feel like Italy was behind on that stuff, even if it was happening in the U.S. I felt like technology wise things were a little bit slower. Always.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, well in general. Yeah. And then there was that, like my friends were all, especially my friends from Cornell, they were moving up the ranks in hedge funds and all this stuff, and I was like begging my bosses to stop taking espresso breaks so I could show them my tote bags. And I was just like, I need to get out of here. So I don't know better for-
Johanna Almstea...: Did you speak Italian?
Jamie Banks: I did. Not really anymore. It's hard, there's no one to talk to.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it's hard to keep it up.
Jamie Banks: It's hard to keep it up.
Johanna Almstea...: Although I was just in Italy last summer and a couple of Aperol spritzes in and mine came back, totally started to come back. But only when I had a couple drinks, otherwise I was too shy.
Jamie Banks: No, it's like my boss used to call wine, Italian juice.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: Because it was so much better. And I never got a real Italian boyfriend, which is how they say you really learned slang.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes, I know. I didn't ever have an Italian boyfriend when I lived in Italy either, so it's very sad.
Jamie Banks: But it was probably for the same reason as me. I found at the time they had just gotten Sex In The City in Italy. And so every time I would say I was from Long Island, they would say, "Oh, the Hamptons?" "No, no, no, I'm not from the Hamptons, it's a different part of Long Island." And no one would listen to me or believe me, or probably I was saying it wrong in Italian. I don't know. And they would always say, "Samantha, you're Samantha." And this is how every date would go. And I would feel like-
Johanna Almstea...: You're like, "I'm really more of a Charlotte, to be honest."
Jamie Banks: I am more of a Charlotte. And they would never believe me. And then the date would always end in some sort of creepy way where they thought I was going to be like, can I say this? Like a slutty American girl?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, you can say it.
Jamie Banks: And then I just was never feeling it to make it a full, I don't think they wanted me to be their girlfriend, I think they wanted me to be Samantha.
Johanna Almstea...: They wanted you to be Samantha.
Jamie Banks: Do you think I was wearing my crop top? What was I doing that was ...
Johanna Almstea...: I don't know.
Jamie Banks: Did you not have that [inaudible 00:17:50]-
Johanna Almstea...: Animal print. Were you wearing a lot of short skirts and animal print and high heels or something? You really must have been. I really don't know.
Jamie Banks: This didn't happen to you, everyone took you seriously?
Johanna Almstea...: No, I just was like, I kind of had a boyfriend back at home that we were on and off or whatever, so I wasn't on the market. And then I think I was really, I just wasn't thinking about it. I don't know. But I was also going to school, so it was different. I wasn't working. It would be different if I think if I was in a professional environment and then had my evenings for you to whatever. I was living in a weird shared apartment by the Vatican with people sleeping on the floors. It was not a very grown-up life.
Jamie Banks: It's very far from your grown-up life now.
Johanna Almstea...: I don't even know what would've happened if I tried to.
Jamie Banks: Oh yeah. No, I lived with male models actually.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God.
Jamie Banks: Only one at a time. I had two roommates over the course of living in Milan, and they were both male models, like for real.
Johanna Almstea...: How did you find your roommates?
Jamie Banks: Craigslist.
Johanna Almstea...: Were you like, "I only live with beautiful men."
Jamie Banks: No, I found them on Craigslist and I think male models are transient.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: They're always passing through Milan. I don't know. We did not have a relationship either. That's not my type, not my type. I don't think I was their type either.
Johanna Almstea...: They were like, "You are not romantic." What?
Jamie Banks: No, they were American.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, they were?
Jamie Banks: American male models. Yeah, I left that out.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, that's so funny.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. They would take me hiking in the Italian Riviera. We all had no money, so we'd have to sneak on a bus to the Italian Riviera and go hiking.
Johanna Almstea...: How romantic.
Jamie Banks: I guess.
Johanna Almstea...: Fun.
Jamie Banks: Don't tell John. He doesn't know about my male models.
Johanna Almstea...: Your roommate. Sure, roommate.
Jamie Banks: Exactly.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay, so were you getting paid or was it fully just an internship?
Jamie Banks: Oh, yeah. So the internship was 800 euro a month, which that wasn't good because my rent was 850 euro a month. The shared rent with the male model was 850 each. So I started off negative every month.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay.
Jamie Banks: And then spent the weekends in Portofino. So you do the math, it wasn't great.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: But then I think I got a raise once my internship was over after three months, then she hired me. Maybe I got 1200 Euro a month. I don't know. We all got to start somewhere, Jo.
Johanna Almstea...: I know, trust me.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: I was thinking about how when I first started at Prada, I made $25,000 a year.
Jamie Banks: Oh my God.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: But you got to say you worked at Prada.
Johanna Almstea...: Got to say you worked at Prada. And actually they paid overtime on top of that. So at one point I was making double that-
Jamie Banks: Because you worked 24 hours a day.
Johanna Almstea...: We literally worked 20 hours a day, so.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: That worked out. But yeah, my actual starting salary was $25,000 a year.
Jamie Banks: Oh my God. No, we used to eat, me and the male models. We used to go to these happy hours in Italy. I think they still have them. And it's like a free, we don't really have this in America, but it's like a free buffet during happy hour hours, like 17:00 to 19:00-
Johanna Almstea...: Situation, yeah.
Jamie Banks: If you bought one drink, which we would buy the cheapest drink they offered, you got to just eat the buffet, which sometimes could be a bunch of little pickles and sometimes could be full-on like pizzas and little sandwich. We knew where to go.
Johanna Almstea...: Wow.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Making it work.
Jamie Banks: Yes.
Johanna Almstea...: I had my friend, Steph, who was my roommate in college on for an episode, and she reminded me of us doing essentially that in New York, when we were first working and going to school, whatever. And we would go to basically it's just any event, it was like we were just girls about town. And any event that had food and drinks-
Jamie Banks: Wedding crasher.
Johanna Almstea...: And figure out ... No, it was always like somebody was going, but it would always be like our friend who worked in art gallery was doing an opening, and so she would invite us. And then our other friend who worked at a restaurant was having a something and we'd go there. It was always some sort of, we weren't just crashing random events, but it was definitely had several meals through-
Jamie Banks: No, but don't you feel like, I get a lot of which I'm always happy to help and pay it forward, but I get a lot of requests like, "Can you speak to my niece, she's graduating from college." Or, "Can you speak to this one, my son's cousin's girlfriend's sister or whatever."
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: And I have learned now to say, can you just make sure they're prepared for the meeting with me and whatever? Because I find that kids these days, can I say that?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. I say it all the time.
Jamie Banks: Okay. Kids these days, they don't want to slum it like we did and waitress at night and whatever. They always say the same thing to me. I'll say, "Well, what can I do for you? Do you know what you want to do in fashion?" They always say, "Well, I want to be you." I'm like, "But like tomorrow?" I've been working so hard for 20 years, you know?
Johanna Almstea...: I know.
Jamie Banks: Go to a free buffet and get a waitressing job.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: I think the transition was when Project Runway became popular, I truly believe this because then it just seemed like you could just be entry-level and fashion and be the head designer. Or at least in design I always felt like this was the nail in the coffin. And it was around the same time because for a long time now it's these 20-year-olds are running the major fashion houses, right. A lot of them aren't even trained designers, they're just cool, trendy people.
Johanna Almstea...: Creative directors.
Jamie Banks: Creatives. Yeah, they're in the mix with the right social circle and they go to all the clubs and I'm sure they're creative and talented and whatever, but they're oftentimes very, very young. And so it sort of, I think sets between Project Runway and Balenciaga. I think it sets this standard for very young people that you no longer have to work your way up as a designer. And that may be, I think different than if you go work at a bank. If you go work at like, I don't know, Goldman Sachs, and you sort of know you have to be an analyst, you have to be this, you become a senior vice president. And it is like that in design too, but no one believes that anymore. People just think I'm talented, I have nothing to learn because I was born talented.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: And I have 30,000 followers on my Instagram. I don't know.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: So I should be the head designer. But there's a lot to learn, I think.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, it's a craft.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: And so I don't think you just absorb that overnight.
Jamie Banks: And it's also a business.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: There's a way things are done in fashion.
Johanna Almstea...: I also think like, you know I have lots of startup clients and a lot of them are so young and they don't have a lot of experience in another company. They haven't, it's not like you where, you had worked your way up and then you decided to launch a brand. It's like they haven't even worked their way up and they're trying to launch this brand and they don't even understand the universe in which they're stepping into, right? They don't even get the world because they just never been in it. And sometimes ignorance is bliss, but-
Jamie Banks: Totally. I was going to say, sometimes it's better for them. [inaudible 00:24:15]. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: But other times it's just like you have no idea what you're doing and it's hard because they spend a lot of money and they spend a lot of time and it's like there's really nothing that can replicate work, the experience.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, doing it.
Johanna Almstea...: Just doing it. Okay. So I want to get to the point of your life where you-
Jamie Banks: Met you.
Johanna Almstea...: Life where you met me. Because that's really when your life began. So wait, okay, so after you left Milan.
Jamie Banks: So everyone leaves Milan in August, as you know, and [inaudible 00:24:43] was like, "You need to leave. There will be no one in Milan." And so then I left and I never went back. And
Johanna Almstea...: Then were you planning on never going back or you just came home and you were-
Jamie Banks: I don't know. She was sort of like, "You have to go home to New York for August, you will be alone in Milan."
Johanna Almstea...: Okay.
Jamie Banks: And then I was like, "Okay, I guess I'll just ... It's time." So I went home and then I needed a job and I photocopied my resume in a bunch of my portfolio, and I walked door to door on Seventh Avenue and in Soho and dropped it off at every single designer.
Johanna Almstea...: You did?
Jamie Banks: Yeah, I need a job.
Johanna Almstea...: To their offices?
Jamie Banks: Yeah, I went to the receptionist. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Look at you. That's like a working girl moment.
Jamie Banks: I know, right? But now you wouldn't have to do that. You can guess the logic of people's emails or write them on LinkedIn. But back in the day, yeah. I don't know, I probably got a few phone calls. Well, at the time, it's not really like this, but Five 57th Avenue, you could just go to every floor in that building and it was like Calvin, Oscar, Ralph, whatever. And I got a call from L.A.M.B by Gwen Stefani-
Johanna Almstea...: Yes.
Jamie Banks: Which was like Gwen's fashion brand.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God, I forgot about that brand.
Jamie Banks: And they said, "We want to meet you." I went in and met them and the next step, they were like, "Okay, Gwen wants to meet you." And this was like, I mean now I think everyone knows Gwen is the voice coach or something, but this was when B-A-N-A-N-A-S was about to come out.
Johanna Almstea...: She was like major.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, she was like major. And she had launched her solo career or whatever. So they're like, "You need to drop off your portfolio at Soho House. And also at the time, you had to be Gwen Stefani to get into Soho House at the time. And I thought that I was going to meet her at Soho House. I mean my portfolio, now everybody has digital portfolios, but my portfolio was a one irreplaceable copy of pages of my actual sketches and my actual knitting.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God.
Jamie Banks: Because remember, I was a sweater major. Yeah. So I would've had to, if I lost that portfolio, it was gigantic, first it was really big. And it wasn't photocopied, it was original artwork.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: And they were like, okay, so I think I'm going to meet Gwen Stefani at Soho House. And I get to the front of Soho House, which is still a little scary and sort of odd.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it's kind of intimidating.
Jamie Banks: And they're like, "Okay, leave it here." And I was like, "No, no, no, no, no." I'm not leaving it here for a rock star. And they were like, "Well, that's what she said to do." And so I did.
Johanna Almstea...: You did?
Jamie Banks: Yeah. And then Gwen gave me the green light, and then I went to go work for Gwen Stefani.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God. And did you get your portfolio back?
Jamie Banks: I did.
Johanna Almstea...: I'm very stressed by that. I'm like, oh my God, did you get it back?
Jamie Banks: I wish we had digital portfolios at the time. Well, there's something magical. I mean, I still read real magazines. I feel like a real portfolio is the same thing as a real magazine.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it's like touching-
Jamie Banks: A feeling.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. Okay, so then you went to work for Gwen?
Jamie Banks: I went to work for Gwen, which was amazing. I mean, it was the time of celebrity fashion lines.
Johanna Almstea...: Right?
Jamie Banks: Like everyone, Jennifer Lopez, Jessica Simpson, they all had their own fashion line at the time. And Gwen was amazing. She was as amazing as you would want her to be.
Johanna Almstea...: Really?
Jamie Banks: Because sometimes you find, I mean, you've met a lot of celebrities and then you find out they're like the worst.
Johanna Almstea...: Assholes.
Jamie Banks: Okay, I didn't know what we should say.
Johanna Almstea...: We can say whatever we want, it's my podcast.
Jamie Banks: You find out they're the worst. And whenever people ask me how's' she, I mean, she's better than you would want her. She was so wonderful and lovely.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, that makes me so happy.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. I hope she's still like that.
Johanna Almstea...: I think she is. I mean, I feel like people say that about her now her role in The Voice.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Everyone's like, "No, she's so nurturing. And she's a cool mom that you want very sweet."
Jamie Banks: She had, Kingston was a baby and she wasn't with us all the time, but whenever she was there, he would be running around and there would be a nanny and someone was always touching up her roots. She got them touched up every day, I think. And I was 25 years old and she used to always be like, "I don't know, Jamie, what do you think in design meetings?" And I'd be like, "Me? Seriously?"
Johanna Almstea...: "You want my opinion?"
Jamie Banks: Yeah. But ultimately I learned two very big things from that job. The first thing is that if you are able to, as a creative person, not just a designer, a creative person, you should always put more thought into a job, not just because it's cool or it seems like high level or whatever, it was not a good fit for me. I think I'm a very good designer, but I'm also very girly and feminine. And I am not a rock star, I do not wear seven inch Louis Vuittons' with sweatpants, that's not my style. It never will be. And so when I went to go sketch as a designer for her, nothing came out. It was very unnatural for me-
Johanna Almstea...: It just wasn't coming naturally to you.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. After that I swore that if I ever ... Sometimes you need a job, so it is what it is. But that was on the very high end, that was very fashiony and it didn't come natural to me. And then similarly, maybe a lot of times people take a job because they need a paycheck, and a lot of times the mass apparel jobs pay more.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: Anything from Ann Taylor to Walmart.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: It oftentimes pays more, well than Prada sounds like for sure.
Johanna Almstea...: That was like a million years ago, I'm sure they pay people normal-
Jamie Banks: And I don't know if any designer goes into design hoping that they design men's chinos all day-
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: But you need a job.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: So I always thought if I ever have the choice, if I'm lucky enough to have my pick of good opportunities, from now on I'm going to be more careful about choosing something more aligned with my DNA as a designer. And then after that, I really was lucky. I always did have that chance.
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing.
Jamie Banks: And the second thing I learned, I think I can talk about this now. It's been a long time. I didn't understand the world of celebrities.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay.
Jamie Banks: If I had known you, which you came later, you would've coached me on this. But there was a lot going on in the office with some very high profile. Because sometimes her friends would be around, or like Andrea Lieberman, who later started ALC was her stylist. And so Andrew would be in a lot of the design meetings. So there were always famous people around the office. And I won't say who, but some things were going on that it wasn't going well with some of the people at the company. And I was very stressed about it and met a friend for dinner at The Odeon, who also worked in fashion. And was sort of just venting to my friend about work and probably talking louder than I should have in the West Village about high-profile people. And the entire thing ended up in The Daily, the next day.
Johanna Almstea...: Holy shit.
Jamie Banks: And I got fired.
Johanna Almstea...: Really?
Jamie Banks: Mm-hmm.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God. Yeah, girl. PR-101.
Jamie Banks: Oh my god. I don't think I've ever told anyone that. Definitely not publicly.
Johanna Almstea...: Wow. Well, good for you. It's been a long time.
Jamie Banks: I mean, I didn't get fired right away, they gathered everyone together. "We know it was someone in this office. We're going to find out who." Then I got fired a week later.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh shit.
Jamie Banks: It was me. I didn't realize I was doing anything wrong.
Johanna Almstea...: Did you tell them it was you? Did you admit it or did they figure it out?
Jamie Banks: Not really. They didn't really fire me and say, "We knew it was you." They were like, "We don't need you next season," or something. I don't know. That was why.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God. Yeah.
Jamie Banks: And to be fair, I was young, didn't understand the celebrity world, whatever, or didn't understand what it meant to live in New York City. I don't know, all the above. But also if you're Gwen, you have to be careful.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: It was not right of me, I should have been more careful.
Johanna Almstea...: Had you signed an NDA?
Jamie Banks: No, it was just weird. But none of us did.
Johanna Almstea...: Weird. That is weird. And that's why you signed them now.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. Right, totally. So anyway, I learned a lot.
Johanna Almstea...: I mean, I feel like back then, I don't know, but maybe things were a little more loosy goosy, I feel like now people are so-
Jamie Banks: Well, there's also no social media. So imagine then I would've been banned from fashion if there was social media.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: If someone had a video of me or something.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. So you think the Daily was the writer was right behind you or something?
Jamie Banks: I actually think I know who it was, I think I know her now that I think. She said hi to me. She was like a girl I knew from high school or college or something. I didn't realize she was a writer for the Daily.
Johanna Almstea...: Amazing. Wow.
Jamie Banks: But it was definitely me, it was my fault. So then I got fired. And I was beside myself and thought my life was over. But then Kate Spade called me and said, "We want to meet you. We're looking for a designer." And I had made this promise to myself that I would only pursue jobs that I felt like I could really be great at. And so I said, "Oh, well thank you so much, but I'm a handbag designer. I had just done these totes with Marni in Milan and they were in my portfolio. So I was like, oh no, that was just a blip of totes with Marni, sorry." And they're like, "No, no, no. A lot of things are changing at Kate Spade. Come talk to us." And that was such a lesson in just be open to everything. I mean, when you're interviewing, you should never say no and you never know.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. Just take the meeting. Just go and see what-
Jamie Banks: Wait, what was I doing anyway? Yeah, I was waitressing at Cheesecake Factory, actually. That's what I was doing.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God, that is amazing. Talk about a fall from Grace. "I'm working on Stefani's design team to waitressing a Cheesecake Factory." Listen, we've all been there. I get it.
Jamie Banks: So true. God.
Johanna Almstea...: But everything happens for a reason, right? Think about that.
Jamie Banks: Oh my God. I had an apartment in the West Village I had to pay for.
Johanna Almstea...: Is there even a Cheesecake Factory in Manhattan?
Jamie Banks: No, it was by my parents' house. I had worked there in college and so they would take you back whenever, there were so many waitresses there. I have not been back since. I can't even.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, that's good.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: I feel like that's-
Jamie Banks: Yeah, I can't be in that environment. But yeah, they would take you back anytime you needed to make some money.
Johanna Almstea...: So were you reverse commuting from the West Village?
Jamie Banks: Sometimes or, I was just at my parents' a lot. I don't even remember. But yeah, so I like tell Kate Spade like, "No, thanks, but no thanks. I don't want to meet you."
Johanna Almstea...: I'd rather stay the Cheesecake Factory.
Jamie Banks: And they finally, John Branca. You remember him?
Johanna Almstea...: Yes.
Jamie Banks: He finally convinced me to come in. I don't know why he was trying so hard, like who was I? but I'm glad he did because one, I loved John Branca and I went, and then they confided in me, I don't know, no NDA again. But Kate and Andy had sold the company to Liz Claiborne. And then Liz Claiborne had hired Deborah Lloyd, who's both of our previous boss and mentor. And they were like, "Deborah's going to come and she's going to be the creative director and she has a ready-to-wear background. And if you just come, you can design random stuff for a little, but then we're going to start a clothing collection."
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God. Yeah.
Jamie Banks: And then I met Deborah and fell in love with her on the spot. I was Deborah's first hire. She says that Lisa Supple, the shoe designer was, but it was me. Deborah, if you're listening, it was me-
Johanna Almstea...: Deborah, if you're listening, Jamie was your number one.
Jamie Banks: But I told her this before. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: You know what's funny, as I was preparing for this, I was thinking about something about you, and actually I think this about Deborah all the time, is that I think of you both as super hardworking. And I always used to call her an A student. And I said that about you too. And you're both very, very feminine designers. Your aesthetic is very feminine. So from a design perspective, it makes a lot of sense. But also your personalities, although different, are very similar in your steadfast work ethic. You're like good students. I don't even know how else to describe it. If you don't know something, you learn it. You ask the questions, you figure it out, and you do it. You get your assignments in on time and you don't fuck around. And I feel like you two are both so similar in that way.
Jamie Banks: I never thought of it like that, but you're so right. That's actually, I admire that about her now that you're saying it. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: You have that too. And I don't know, if you imagine if you ended up at Cornell, you probably were a good student before. But you both have a very disciplined approach to your work and kind of like a no fuss, no muss, very much like, "This is what needs to get done and I'm going to do it." And without a lot of drama around it-
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Even if it's something you don't know, like you're going to just get it done. And I think about that a lot. And as I was working with you when you were founding the brand, I remember coming home and saying there to my husband, I'm like, "She's like an A plus student. She's just one of those people that she's decided it, she's made her goal. And she's figuring it out as she goes along and she just does the right thing, shows up and does it."
Jamie Banks: That's the ultimate compliment, I really appreciate that. Although I will tell you, it was much easier to be like that when I had a team of 10 designers to execute it with me.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: Because now I try to be an A plus student. When I decided I was going to run Meta ads for Change of Scenery, of course I went and got Instagram Ads for Dummies. And I was going to read it cover-to-cover and run my own Instagram ads.
Johanna Almstea...: Right, of course you were.
Jamie Banks: But where do you even start? If the book was written more than two months ago, it's useless.
Johanna Almstea...: Right, exactly.
Jamie Banks: It was written four years ago. And is that a good use of my time? I'm going to become an Instagram ads expert. But I just really don't like to even have someone working with me or for me that I don't know how to mostly do their job. It's okay if they're better at it than me, but I hate not understanding how they get there. Because I think you can have empathy for someone's job scope if you don't understand what they do.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, I don't feel the same way, but I appreciate that. I feel like I now know I'm old enough now to know. Maybe it's just older than you, that I, one year I know what I don't know and I don't have any more room in my brain to try to figure it out. And I think that's mostly more on the social media technology, that kind of stuff. It's like-
Jamie Banks: Well, I thought it was so interesting what you and Kyle Andrew talked about with how social, because that really, that's a big deal. Design hasn't changed as much as PR has changed.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. And so I feel like for that, there's certain things where I'm like, "I don't think that's the best use of my time." Yeah, sure. I could go learn it. And I'm going to do the peripheral. I'm going to learn it just so I understand what landscape I'm in, but I'm not going to deep dive into something that I just know is not innately me, like I'm not good at it. That's not who I am. But that's taken me now a while to figure that out, I think.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: No, because I always gave the budgets to somebody else too.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. No, you're right. Well, it's to a fault too because you only have a finite amount of time.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, and as a founder, it's really hard not to. At a certain point, there are certain things that you just have to give up. You have to delegate because it just, you can't do it.
Jamie Banks: There's only 24 hours in the day.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. And there's a lot of shit to do.
Jamie Banks: Did you just have to think about that?
Johanna Almstea...: I know. I was like, that's wild.
Jamie Banks: Are you sure? I always think Beyonce also only gets 24 hours. [inaudible 00:38:35]-
Johanna Almstea...: Makes me feel bad about myself though. I don't want to think about that.
Jamie Banks: No, I think she has a lot of people working for her, but she only gets 24 hours and she gets a lot done. So if she could do it, I can do it. I have a lot less to do than Beyonce.
Johanna Almstea...: That is true. I think we all have a lot less to do than Beyonce. But I think also part of that is, and I've definitely had different points in my life where I've had either corporate help or a little more staffed up in my own business, and it's like you really can get more done when you have more people helping you.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. It's like one plus one equals two.
Johanna Almstea...: You really can get a lot done. And there's moments where I'm like, "Wow, I'm really jamming on it. And then there's times when I'm not and I'm like, "Oh, that's, I'm alone." I can't do what more people do, right?
Jamie Banks: Yeah, of course.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. I want to talk about the fact that you decided to launch your own brand when you were the mother of three children under the age of 10.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. Yeah, I guess 10. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: I never wanted my own brand. A lot of designers go to school and they say, "I'm going to have my own collection." And this I'm bummed about because I think I've worked with a lot of designers over the years, or even young guys or girls that work for me that even in the interview will say, "I'm going to have my own brand one day, I'm here to learn." Then they have their eyes open all the time. I was like, head-down, design only, no idea what you did, no idea what the marketing team did.
Johanna Almstea...: That's interesting.
Jamie Banks: Should have spent more time with the planners. A lot of things. There was so much to learn at Kate Spade, it was the most amazing team of people then. Now all the years, different people. And it was such a great open learning environment. They just wanted you to be better so you could join any meeting, you could have coffee with anybody, amazing. And there were amazing women everywhere in that office.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: And there was so much to do in design. And for as much as Deborah was so straightforward and streamlined, I hope she's listening.
Johanna Almstea...: I hope she is too. Deborah Lloyd, are you listening? We better send her this one.
Jamie Banks: Her biggest mantra was less is more.
Johanna Almstea...: That's true.
Jamie Banks: But we developed-
Johanna Almstea...: A lot.
Jamie Banks: So much. A lot.
Johanna Almstea...: You eventually got to less is more, but the development eventually.
Jamie Banks: Eventually, yeah. Anyway, so I worked at Kate Spade with you from 2007 to 2010. And then went to work at a few other companies. And then came back from 2014 to 2020. And in June, 2020, they shut down the ready-wear vision in COVID, the whole division.
Johanna Almstea...: So sad.
Jamie Banks: So sad. Yeah. And honestly, I thought my life was over. I mean, COVID, it was a weird time. I turned 40 the day after we got laid off. So then I was old and unemployed in fashion, which you don't want to be.
Johanna Almstea...: Bad combo, not good for the self-esteem.
Jamie Banks: No, it's not good to be 40 as a designer.
Johanna Almstea...: Really?
Jamie Banks: I guess it's probably not good to be 40 in fashion in general, but in design-
Johanna Almstea...: Except for Grace Coddington. One of the editors age better.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, everyone wants the designers to be young and like in the know and have followers, and I don't know.
Johanna Almstea...: Why do need Instagram followers to be a good designer? That doesn't make any sense.
Jamie Banks: I think you just need them to be anything in life.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, I know. Trust me.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: I know.
Jamie Banks: But here we are. And I had three kids. I had an 18-month-old son who was the perfect age to walk into the countertop.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes.
Jamie Banks: And he was a boy, and so he was nuts. We had our eyes on him all the time, and I was trying to homeschool my first grader and my pre-K, we gave up on her. But she's gifted and talented now, so it's fine.
Johanna Almstea...: So it's fine.
Jamie Banks: And look for a job, and then no one was hiring because all the stores were closed. So certainly nobody needed a designer and no one needed an expense. I was expensive. I was like, you don't realize at the time when you get laid off, you're very much like everyone hates me and I'm not talented and my career is worthless. But now I can look back and say, "Okay, I was really expensive."
Johanna Almstea...: They needed to take a line item off.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. They probably didn't know who I was.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: But I thought I would work at Kate Spade forever, happily. I loved working there. I did through everything. Through the times with Deborah, through the coach takeover merger, what do they call it? I don't like to call it a takeover. Yeah. I had a great boss, Narda Chan, and we were really close and they gave me a lot of opportunities, and I oversaw 20 licensed categories and was learning a lot about these very specific categories in apparel and loving it. And then all of a sudden your whole life blows up and I was old. So that was bad. And nobody wanted to meet me. There were no interviews, nothing. And so I had some old factory partners, things like that, and they were like, "You should start your own brand. We work with idiots every day and you're not an idiot. You should start a brand." It basically went like that, and then my husband said, "You need to pick me up. You moping around the house. Your whole self-worth was wrapped up in being this big designer." I think it was actually.
Johanna Almstea...: I think all of us were. I think we totally identified with our job as who we were.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. I mean, it was fun. "Oh, what do you do?" "I'm the design director at Kate Spade." It's nice to say that, people get impressed, whatever. I was very impressed with myself.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, and you got to spend your days doing what you love to do. And I think that that's-
Jamie Banks: I loved it.
Johanna Almstea...: Doing what you love to do in an environment that was at that time very fulfilling, and you throw your whole self into it. You pour your entire, I did at least my entire-
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Persona into it, all of my energy, all of my time, all of my everything. And then all of a sudden it's not there anymore. It's a very strange whiplash of, "Wait, who am I?"
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: "Then if this is how I've identified with myself and the world has identified with me, who am I now?"
Jamie Banks: Yeah. And actually what I had committed to earlier in my career that I would only pursue jobs that were really aligned with my own personal aesthetic. It had been working for me for a while because I was at Kate Spade, then I went to Millie, then I went to Shoshanna, then I went back to Kate Spade. So there's a theme of femininity and contemporary fashion. It really worked against me once I got laid off because I'd sort of run out of those brands a little bit. And people had moved on.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. And you weren't buried enough.
Jamie Banks: Right. Yeah, exactly. And even what had become the new feminine brands, they were so much more designer like Zimmerman. And then I would meet with brands that were very full of themselves. But even brands, I'm not going to name names, but brands that were not that cool or not that designer or feminine, they'd be like, "Well, we're really looking for someone from Ola Johnson." I'm like, "Do you think that the head of design from Ola Johnson is going to come work here?" But I couldn't change my path, there was really nothing. I was just very down in the dumps. And John was like, "You're never going to have this free time again. You're wasting your time on LinkedIn. It's a pandemic."
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: "No one is looking for a head of design."
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: "They don't want any more product. They're looking for heads of E-commerce to get rid of the product."
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: "You should write a business plan." Well, my husband has an MBA in entrepreneurship, this felt very natural to him. He was like, "Go write a business plan."
Johanna Almstea...: You're like, "Yeah of course."
Jamie Banks: He was like, "Okay, when I'm done with breakfast, no problem." But it got me to focus on something that was challenging again and exciting again. And even if I didn't start a company, it was interesting to sort of flush this idea out.
Johanna Almstea...: It's a good exercise to get you out on your phone,
Jamie Banks: But then you write a business plan, then you call your friend Johanna, you do some brand meetings, you start designing. And then all of a sudden you have inventory. And then I was like, "Oh, shit. How did that happen?" And now I have a company.
Johanna Almstea...: "And now I have to run this company."
Jamie Banks: Totally. Totally.
Johanna Almstea...: So that's how it happens.
Jamie Banks: Designing collections every season.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: But I don't know. I think most people's stories, "It was always my dream to have my own collection." And since I was five years old, I knew I wasn't like that. I love working for big companies, I love building big brands, and I love working in a big team.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: I love it.
Johanna Almstea...: So no, you're not doing any of those things.
Jamie Banks: No. I'm like, you know that meme, that's like, "If you ever see me talking to myself, don't be worried, don't stop me. I'm having a staff meeting." I really identify with that one.
Johanna Almstea...: "Me, myself, and I running in my business." So now you're three years in.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: It's super successful. It's beautiful.
Jamie Banks: Thank you.
Johanna Almstea...: People are loving it, people are buying it over and over again. I'm a repeat customer even of the same style and color-
Jamie Banks: You are? Did you lose one? What happened?
Johanna Almstea...: No, I just wore it out. I literally wore it out. And I was like, "I want this again." And people always tell me it's like the most flattering bathing suit.
Jamie Banks: Oh, I'm so glad. But you are beautiful.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, thank you.
Jamie Banks: I'm sure it is.
Johanna Almstea...: It's like the one with the low cut.
Jamie Banks: The plunge?
Johanna Almstea...: The plunge, but not the super duper plungey one.
Jamie Banks: Oh.
Johanna Almstea...: I have the super duper plungey one, that was a little racy for me, but-
Jamie Banks: Oh, okay.
Johanna Almstea...: I wore it in Italy because I was feeling saucy.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. But now you have a 13-year-old Mazel Tov.
Jamie Banks: Thank you. She just had a bat mitzvah, she was.
Johanna Almstea...: So you have a 13-year-old and now your middle one is-
Jamie Banks: Is 10.
Johanna Almstea...: 10.
Jamie Banks: Almost 10.
Johanna Almstea...: And then your little guy is-
Jamie Banks: The kindergartner-
Johanna Almstea...: Oh my God.
Jamie Banks: He's six.
Johanna Almstea...: So like that's a fuck ton of work just having those three ages of children.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. I mean, we have the same age kids. The older ones are almost at the place where they don't even need me all the time.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: But then you have to be there even more, you need to insert yourself even more.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: My daughter has a boyfriend.
Johanna Almstea...: So does mine, but I'm not allowed to talk about it.
Jamie Banks: Oh yeah. Let's make sure they don't hear this.
Johanna Almstea...: I know.
Jamie Banks: Okay.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. So she has a boyfriend. Do you like him?
Jamie Banks: Oh my God, he's been the cutest in town since kindergarten.
Johanna Almstea...: I love that.
Jamie Banks: And I like his mom even more.
Johanna Almstea...: That's huge.
Jamie Banks: When I found out I called her immediately because I am the coolest.
Johanna Almstea...: I have to say, I made a friend. I had not met the mom before this is an ex now, because we're onto a different relationship now. That one of my children's boyfriends. And the mom and I fell in love and we were obsessed with their relationship, super weird about it.
Jamie Banks: You're only going to Italy together.
Johanna Almstea...: I know. And we're like, "Come over to dinner." We'd double date with the kids. And we really enjoyed hanging out with each other. And then they ended up breaking up and she and I don't get to see each other anymore. And I actually ran into her the other day and I was like, "Oh my God, I miss you." She's like, "I miss you so much. We need to find a way to hang out." Because our kids, [inaudible 00:48:27] will not even look each other in the eye now, they're like super awkward. And-
Jamie Banks: It was a bad breakup?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. Not really, but as one is when you're 11, it's all very dramatic.
Jamie Banks: I hear you.
Johanna Almstea...: And so it was very funny because I was like, "I feel like I lost something in this breakup here." It's like a divorce, more than a breakup.
Jamie Banks: Totally. My kindergarten son also had a girlfriend-
Johanna Almstea...: Oh.
Jamie Banks: Which is probably not a good use of time on the podcast, but it's a really good story. We're very close with the parents of the girl. And they got in the same kindergarten class and we were really excited. And they get assigned to sit next to each other at lunch the first day at kindergarten. So he comes home and he says-
Johanna Almstea...: So it's destiny, it's meant to be.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, it's basically. He comes home and he says, I said, "How was your first day of kindergarten?" He said, "It was good. I'm sitting next to Izzy at lunch. They told me I have to sit there." And I said, "Okay." And he goes, "So now she's my girlfriend." I said, "Wow, if [inaudible 00:49:16] can only make it that easy, that should be like match.com's commercial, right? So fast forward-
Johanna Almstea...: Like I'm sitting next to John Hamm at lunch.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: So now he's my boyfriend-
Jamie Banks: He's my boyfriend, exactly. So the relationship gets super serious really quickly. They're five, right? But they asked to be married on Peach for Halloween, and they ditch their friends on Halloween and go trick or treating together.
Johanna Almstea...: Wow.
Jamie Banks: This is a sign of a serious relationship.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: And then one day, Izzy's mom, Cindy, my good friend, calls me and she goes, "I don't know if Brandon told you, but he broke up with Izzy at school today." I said, "What happened?" "She ordered a burger from the lunch line and sat down." And he said, "Why didn't you get cheese?" And she said, "I don't like cheese on my burger." Dumped
Johanna Almstea...: Over.
Jamie Banks: Done. He will not date a girl that doesn't eat cheese on her hamburger.
Johanna Almstea...: I mean, a guy's got to have standards, you know. Listen, you like what you like, sometimes you're not willing to compromise. Oh my God, that's my favorite thing ever.
Jamie Banks: I know, I hope they get married. I think it's still in the cards for them.
Johanna Almstea...: So then you can tell that story at their wedding. And you have to serve burgers with no cheese.
Jamie Banks: Totally. But I think the hardest thing about being an solo entrepreneur, I don't know. I have a few people now actually. It's a big deal.
Johanna Almstea...: Staff.
Jamie Banks: A few great people. Yeah. I don't have staff. I have a lot of consultants and a few unbelievable part-time-
Johanna Almstea...: That's amazing.
Jamie Banks: Employees. Yeah. But I think it's hard to work from home. I'm not a good work from home. First of all, like I said before, I love being in a big office environment. I love the energy, I love all the people around. I don't understand how anybody learns anything on Zoom. I mean, I'm a product person, so it's really hard for me-
Johanna Almstea...: Yes.
Jamie Banks: But yes, I realize things can get done without being in the same room, without touching the product, I guess. Without going to the factory. But it can't possibly be as good. I believe in inspiration trips, all those things.
Johanna Almstea...: Touching and feeling and seeing and experiencing.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. And it's going to go away. And you can never get to know your team as well on Zoom.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes.
Jamie Banks: I think it's really cool that you can find talent all over the country or the world, that part's cool. But there's a rhythm to working with PBL that I think is very, very odd on Zoom. Especially in Creative. And I think that my kids don't understand. They don't remember when I worked in the city 70 hours a week, but they don't understand why I'm here and I'm not hanging out with them.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: Even though I'm in an office filled with bathing suits, I think it's pretty clear.
Johanna Almstea...: No, but they only know what they know, right?
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: I mean, I always have this moment where I'm like, I try to be around in the afternoons and I'll bust my ass all day and be literally finishing something up as I'm in the pickup line on my phone, sending that last email so that I can be focused with them for the next two hours. And then when they're home from, they happen to be home today. And I'm like, "Guys, I do this stuff all day while you guys are at school. I know it feels annoying because you're home right now. But I actually have a job that I have to do. And it's hard for you to understand that. But I think it's like a double-edged sword." I love being available. I love being around. I love working from home most of the time, but I do feel like there is the culture part of the business. And to your point with the actual product, I think if I were working with product product all the time, I wouldn't be able to do it, I would need to be in-person.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. And I feel very grateful that I'm starting to be able to grow the Change of Scenery team. But I very much believe in brainstorming and piggybacking on each other's ideas in creative and in business, in marketing and all the things. And I just don't think you could be the most brilliant person in the world, nothing is the best if it's just you.
Johanna Almstea...: Yes, a hundred percent.
Jamie Banks: If you have no one to bounce ideas off of.
Johanna Almstea...: Totally.
Jamie Banks: It's never better. Even if you end up in the same place, at least you talked it through.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. You sent me a text recently about the fact that you were busting your ass to finish work.
Jamie Banks: Oh, yes. Because I listened to your interview with Kyle and she was talking about how she, we used to get decked at Kate Spade. We looked like we were going to the prom. And we would go to work like that every day. And then didn't one of her kids be like, "I wish you were wearing the [inaudible 00:53:14] like everyone else."
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, like I want you to be wearing Merrell sneakers and jeans.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. So I texted you, I mean the tariff situation has been very, very stressful and challenging for everyone, but for a small business owner, I don't have a logistics team to navigate this for me. It's like me against the factory, against the government. And one day I decided it was soccer tryouts and I was going to bust my ass to finish whatever I didn't get done, I wasn't going to get done. And I was going to go to soccer tryouts and be fully engaged. I left my phone in the car and I was going to stand on the side and watch for tryout for soccer. And the next day I said, "How'd you feel about tryouts yesterday? You did great. Did you feel great?" She goes, "What'd you think? I mean, did you enjoy talking to your friends on the sidelines the whole time?" And I was like, "You fucking asshole."
Johanna Almstea...: Okay, so this is a two-pronged thing. So I was thinking about this as I was preparing to talk to you about this. Two things happens in this moment, right? One, the mom guilt is fucking crushing.
Jamie Banks: Horrible. The worst.
Johanna Almstea...: And this is something that I did not ever anticipate, and I didn't anticipate not being able to handle it. I thought it would happen a little bit, but I was like, I thought I'd be fully prepared, I'm not. I still am not. Number two, a thing that people do not fucking talk about enough is, "You know what? While you were talking to whoever you were talking to on the sidelines, you were probably getting super important information about the next soccer tryout or what the travel team is going to be or whatever it is." The actual fact of having to do the parent networking part of this whole thing, not just to be there for your child, of course you want to watch her and witness what she's doing, but also the part of like, "I got to talk to these people because I got to understand what the hell's going on. I got to figure out how to navigate."
Jamie Banks: Right, it's your child's benefit if you're in the mix and in the know.
Johanna Almstea...: Right? And it's an information network that is happening on those sidelines, or that's happening at that dance class or whatever it is. And that's the other part about it. And that was something as my kids get older, especially that I had definitely underestimated. I have this whole thing about why are we watching kids practice sports? Why the fuck are all the parents at practice?
Jamie Banks: But everyone stays.
Johanna Almstea...: And then if you're the one who doesn't stay, then you're like the neglectful parent. But also you're missing all of this information sharing that's important stuff for your kids' social stuff, their academic stuff, their sports stuff, whatever it is. And that's like someone talked about the networking on the playground and I was like, "Oh my God, yes. That's where you learn about the best preschool program and that's where you learn about the summer camp and that's where you learn about all this stuff". And it's like, that's a whole other job.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, that's such a good point. I never thought about that.
Johanna Almstea...: So I constantly struggle with this thing of I want to model to my kids what a working mom is, right? And have them understand that, but also wanting to be fully present for them as a mother, which is also really hard. Plus, talking to the people on the sidelines to figure out the information that you need to figure out. You're doing so many things and I just feel like it's really, really, really hard. And those were things I did not anticipate about motherhood. I didn't think about that.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. And just that in the beginning, it seemed so hard with the babies, but big kids, big problems is a real thing.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: And my kids are fine. They're very typical, they don't have real problems.
Johanna Almstea...: No, I know, but it's still real, they're still humans. They're still humans with the stuff, right?
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: So I think about this too. You were down in the dumps about your job and about your career.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Your husband encouraged you to start this business. Now you're in it and you're not down in the dumps anymore. You have other problems because running a business is hard, but it's a different thing mentally, right? You're I think happier, more productive, feeling good, but you're making these sacrifices, right? You might not get to that tryout or when you get to that tryout, apparently you're not as fully present as she wants you to be, whatever it is.
Jamie Banks: Apparently just gossiping on the sidelines, yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: But I guess, what do you want your kids, when they listen to this in 10 years, when it's appropriate for them. What do you want your kids to know about you in this time right now, that you're building this business and you're building your family and you're doing all the things. What do you want them to know?
Jamie Banks: I mean, I feel like the right answer, which is not going to be my answer, is that I'm raising girls and I want to raise strong women. I do. This is not something I don't want to do. But what I learned from getting laid off is, like you said, getting laid off is really hard. I was in a really dark place. I've been working for a long time. I had always been very, very proud of my career, and then all of a sudden nobody wanted me. It was like, why did I ever work at all? Right? And what I learned from that time was that, I mean, I love being a mom. And for sure, that's my first job being a mom. Nothing makes me more proud than those three kids. But it's not enough for me. I'm very lucky to love what I do.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: The first few years I was dating my husband, I would always say, "How was your day? How was work?" And he'd be like, "Oh my God, no one loves their job like you do. It's so annoying." I did, but I think a lot of people in fashion love their job. I really love my job and I need it. I wouldn't be as good of a mom if I ... Some people are really amazing at being a stay-at-home mom, which mind you is a harder job.
Johanna Almstea...: A hundred percent harder.
Jamie Banks: And you have to navigate more things and you have to be on all the time and whatever. And I wouldn't be as good of a mom or a friend. I mean, look, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm not a very good friend right now either.
Johanna Almstea...: But something's got to give, right?
Jamie Banks: Something's got to give. But I need this for me, it fulfills like a part of me. And I think they probably don't realize now they think I work too much, they want me to hire more people. They don't understand why I can't have a store that all their friends can go to and pick stuff out. That comes up a lot. I'm like, "You want me to work less, but you want me to have a retail store?"
Johanna Almstea...: Right? So cool.
Jamie Banks: But I do think that without realizing it, they will look back and say, "Well, my mom needed that piece of her. And she always prioritized that." Not first, but well, sometimes first I'm working on it. But we also can have something for ourselves that fulfills us.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. My son too. Yeah.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: I just had a Gaston that was talking about basically taking on, she had a terrible loss in her life and then took on a creative project that brought her back to life. And it was a huge sacrifice in her time with her child. And we were talking about the fact that she knew it, she knew the sacrifice she was making while she was making it. And that's hard also when you're just like, "I'm conscious of this." But yet she wouldn't be able to be who she is now many, many years later and very well and very good and very successful and great relationship with her daughter. If she hadn't done that for herself, she hadn't taken that job that reignited her self-worth, her creativity, her love of life-
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Her love of her job, all those things. And so I think it's like this constant weighing the-
Jamie Banks: Well, she knows that now.
Johanna Almstea...: She knows it now in hindsight, right?
Jamie Banks: But back then it was probably very, very hard.
Johanna Almstea...: But I always say to my husband, I wish I could be happy being a stay-at-home mom. I have some friends who are brilliant at it.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: And they're so happy doing it.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: And I'm like, "I wish I could, but I'm not as good at it as they are, and I'm not as happy doing it when it's the only thing I'm doing." I've tried a couple different-
Jamie Banks: Yeah, yeah. And this is why it's not so healthy to listen to podcasts like how I built this. I still listen to them, but it's not the healthiest thing you could do as an entrepreneur because you don't really hear a lot of the stories about how hard it is to start a business and you really only hear the success stories.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: That's what most people talk about. It just could be your other podcast, top small.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, I mean that's part of what this is, is like it doesn't have to be just starting businesses, but just being a working parent and that it's not all roses. Even people who are really successful-
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: The journey there is not easy.
Jamie Banks: No, it's not. I mean, look now and again you hear of someone who like Taylor Swift wore their thing and they became an overnight success, but it really doesn't happen a lot. And starting a business for me, because it had never been my dream. So it wasn't like my dream come true. I just was doing what I love again, without the budget or the team or the resources-
Johanna Almstea...: Or the fancy office.
Jamie Banks: Or the fancy office, all the things-
Johanna Almstea...: Free coffee, clothing allowance-
Jamie Banks: Totally, so-
Johanna Almstea...: Assistance.
Jamie Banks: You can see. And I was working around the clock and you feel like you're on a treadmill and then you're making all these mistakes. And some of them were really big mistakes. And I was in a really, really bad place for a long time. And I got a therapist to help me work through it, because I just felt like I was being a horrible wife, a horrible mom, making mistakes all the time with this new business, making no money. Of course, you own at first. And I always wonder for the people who it's always been their dream, which again is a lot of designers, is it easier for them because they're like, Well, at least I'm living my dream and I'm going to push through." I was sort of like, "I could just as easily get a job of Veronica Beard and be super happy."
Johanna Almstea...: What made you keep going?
Jamie Banks: The inventory mostly. That's my real answer.
Johanna Almstea...: Because you own all this inventory?
Jamie Banks: Yeah, I don't even have that much inventory, but I don't know. And I would see, because I meet a lot of founders and we'll have virtual coffee and talk, and it's really nice. The founder community is amazing. I think the corporate community is very cut through. Everybody's buying for the same vice president, and I think that world is much harder. But the entrepreneurial world is amazing. I've had such a good experience with that. But now and again, someone would be like, "I decided to shut down." And I'd be like, "Ah, jealous." I think I'm not supposed to say that. Yeah, because it just, it's very lonely-
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: And it's very, very hard. And you really don't see how hard. I mean, not to mention if you really want to start with Amazon and-
Johanna Almstea...: Fashion,
Jamie Banks: The department stores are on sale all the time. And just to compete as a small brand, I didn't invent bathing suits.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: You know-
Johanna Almstea...: You don't own the IP.
Jamie Banks: Totally. People are like, "You should be in Shark Tank." I'm like, "For what? Like for inventing bathing suits?" I'm just trying to do it better and address a woman who I think is underserved. But it's very hard to translate in a picture on an E-commerce site why my quality is better than someone, it is just hard. Everything about entrepreneurship is very, very hard. And I've met entrepreneurs who have funding millions of dollars, that's hard too. You have to answer someone. You have to answer to someone, you spend a lot more money which is bigger mistakes. We self-funded everything, and so it's very personal. And I am a designer, so I'm emotional and take everything really personally. But then three years in now I realize I never worked for a company that was growing.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: I always worked for companies that existed.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: That had all the accounts, that had all the customers. You take it for granted. When you start from zero, now that we have a following and we have a bunch of accounts, and I have an unbelievable showroom, and the Instagram ads are up and running. Everything's such a learning process. And now I'm like, "Oh, it just doesn't happen overnight."
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: And I'm not saying I'm there by any means-
Johanna Almstea...: But all systems are firing in the right direction.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: At least.
Jamie Banks: Things are. I can't believe people come to me for advice now so I'm like, "Really? Am I?" I'm not on the other side of it, but I definitely have been through the mistakes. And if I can help anybody else, call me if you're having trouble with your small business.
Johanna Almstea...: What's something that you once believed about yourself that you've since outgrown?
Jamie Banks: I am not good at everything.
Johanna Almstea...: Even though you're an A plus student?
Jamie Banks: Yes. No one ever put it the way that you did before. But I really do try to be A plus student and everything. And I finally actually realized, it must've been like six months ago, I had not taken a penny of investment and I was staying up till three in the morning, sometimes pulling all nighters. I mean, I'm going to be 45 years old, this is not okay.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: I have three little kids. And I ended up on a panel for this small business funding bank and sort of learned a lot about ways that people like sort of fund inventory and just these things that I didn't know about. And long story short, ended up going with a different bank and taking my first small business loan. And when I was going through the process, the bank who had an amazing rap, who's my buddy now, he was like, "Well, you're out of human resources. This is your problem. The bank actually doesn't fund human resources, they fund inventory, but then you can use the money to pay for human resources." Which is how I started building a team. But that was really the problem is because I think I know everything or I think I'm good at everything in fashion or whatever, and I'm not, I'm a designer.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: You can't be good at everything, you can be objective at everything. And then also, there's just things that even if you're the best at it, if it's your own brand, someone needs to step outside and like-
Johanna Almstea...: You need perspective.
Jamie Banks: You need perspective. And that was the real eye-opening experience when he said, "You are out of human resources." I had never thought of it that way.
Johanna Almstea...: I love that saying even, that really hits home.
Jamie Banks: So I got myself some human resources.
Johanna Almstea...: Some human resources. It's funny, I hadn't ever thought about the way that phrase breaks down.
Jamie Banks: I know, you take it for granted. It's like a department at work.
Johanna Almstea...: Right. But it's they're actual resources that are human.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, you have financial resources. You have like-
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. And these are humans who can do things that I can't do.
Jamie Banks: Or just have more hours to do. I don't know. And I always knew this way, you get a new hire even when you work at a big company, and it's worth the time to train them because even though they're slower than you, eventually you won't be doing it anymore.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: But when you're so starved for time as a solo entrepreneur, it's very hard to be like, "I'm going to take four hours out of my super precious day to teach you all the stuff that was in my head for ... " I mean, I literally used to enter stuff in Shopify from my head.
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: So then Alexis comes on.
Johanna Almstea...: I hope Alexis is listening.
Jamie Banks: Alexis, are you listening?
Johanna Almstea...: Alexis is the best.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. And she's like, "Well, where do I get the info for this?" And I'm like, "In my head."
Johanna Almstea...: She's like, I think we're going to need to find a better system.
Jamie Banks: Yeah, we're going to have to work on that. So that I think has been my ... what was the question? Does that answer your question?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah, it totally answers my question.
Jamie Banks: I don't know everything.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. I could talk to you for a million more hours, but I want to go into my lightning round of silly questions-
Jamie Banks: Yes.
Johanna Almstea...: Because those are really fun. This has been so eye-opening I feel like for a lot of people. Don't overthink this. I know you're an A student, but you don't have to study for this.
Jamie Banks: I didn't practice, actually. I've heard it a bunch of times, but I didn't practice. Okay.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. What's your ultimate comfort food?
Jamie Banks: Oh, chicken parmesan.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, you are not alone in that on this podcast.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: What did you want to be when you grew up?
Jamie Banks: An architect.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh. What is something you are really good at?
Jamie Banks: Fashion design. No, I'm also-
Johanna Almstea...: That's good. It's your job.
Jamie Banks: Also bowling.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, amazing.
Jamie Banks: I'm really good.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. This is a fun fact I love.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: Jamie Banks is a mad bowler. And what's something you're really bad at?
Jamie Banks: A lot of things. Oh, cooking.
Johanna Almstea...: Cooking, okay.
Jamie Banks: If you ask John, he'll tell you, we can play the [inaudible 01:07:52] game, he would say the same thing.
Johanna Almstea...: He would say cooking?
Jamie Banks: Mm-hmm.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. Favorite word?
Jamie Banks: My favorite word, what do other people say?
Johanna Almstea...: I'm not telling you, that's cheating.
Jamie Banks: My son said a bad word this weekend. And then I said, "Where'd you learn that?" And he said, "You say it all the time." So maybe that word-
Johanna Almstea...: You can say it.
Jamie Banks: It starts with an F.
Johanna Almstea...: You can say it. It's okay.
Jamie Banks: I'm not saying it, now I'm embarrassed.
Johanna Almstea...: Like, no, I can't.
Jamie Banks: It's bad parenting.
Johanna Almstea...: The F word is her favorite word.
Jamie Banks: The F word is my favorite word.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay. What's your least favorite word?
Jamie Banks: I can't, that's two words.
Johanna Almstea...: It's okay. Least favorite food. Like deal breaker, you will not eat it?
Jamie Banks: Like any of the food that they used to try to serve us in China, the factories as the guest of honor. Oh, I don't like the head of something or the eggs of something, like those things.
Johanna Almstea...: Got it. Best piece of advice you've ever received?
Jamie Banks: I had an intern boss at Ralph Lauren who had gone to Harvard and we got into a conversation one day. I said, "Don't you feel bad that we were smart and we could have done something that made a difference in the world? We could have been doctors or whatever." And I will never forget, he said to me, "We're doing something even more important than that, we are making women happy."
Johanna Almstea...: Aww.
Jamie Banks: It's always been my favorite.
Johanna Almstea...: I love that.
Jamie Banks: Michael.
Johanna Almstea...: I love that.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: If your personality were a flavor, what would it be?
Jamie Banks: Mint chip.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh.
Jamie Banks: Well, wait, that's my favorite flavor. Is that wrong?
Johanna Almstea...: I think it actually suits you too though as a personality-
Jamie Banks: Or birthday cake.
Johanna Almstea...: Birthday cake.
Jamie Banks: I love a party.
Johanna Almstea...: That's cute.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: What was your first paid job?
Jamie Banks: Cheesecake Factory. No, The Gap. I worked at The Gap in high school.
Johanna Almstea...: Okay.
Jamie Banks: I folded on the folding boards.
Johanna Almstea...: I mean, everyone learned to fold at The Gap. Okay, so last supper, you're literally leaving this body and this earth tomorrow. You're not going to be here anymore and you're going to have one last meal. What would it be tonight? What would you eat?
Jamie Banks: Chinese food.
Johanna Almstea...: Chinese food specifics, or just a huge, just give me the whole menu.
Jamie Banks: Like Steamed dumplings. Me and my husband love steamed dumplings so much, we each get one. It's probably not healthy. Fried rice with chicken, moo shu. Maybe ... Well, I usually get the diet special, but I don't know if I would choose that.
Johanna Almstea...: No, I mean not on your last night on earth.
Jamie Banks: No. Probably chicken with broccoli then. Wait, do other people say something so much fancier than Chinese-
Johanna Almstea...: No, actually I already, I did another episode this morning and she said the same thing.
Jamie Banks: Oh, good.
Johanna Almstea...: And she had a very specific Chinese restaurant in Long Island, actually. Have you ever had a moment in your life when you've had to eat your words, like you've had to take something back or-
Jamie Banks: Yeah, at the Odeon.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, yeah. I kind of wish she had taken those back before they got printed in the daily.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: But who knows? Maybe you would've not had the same path.
Jamie Banks: No.
Johanna Almstea...: If you had to eat one food for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Jamie Banks: Greek salad.
Johanna Almstea...: Oh, I love that.
Jamie Banks: I have a very expansive palette, apparently. Not fancy, but expansive.
Johanna Almstea...: Where is your happy place?
Jamie Banks: Camping for Girls.
Johanna Almstea...: Aww.
Jamie Banks: I know, I'm such a cliche.
Johanna Almstea...: It's true though. A nice Jewish girl from Long Island with her camp-
Jamie Banks: A nice Jewish camp.
Johanna Almstea...: Or summer camp friends.
Jamie Banks: It's true.
Johanna Almstea...: What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world?
Jamie Banks: Maybe this, I don't know. The girls that work for me tell me I wear this dress too much and I need to wear something else. Because I have to be on Instagram a lot.
Johanna Almstea...: It's your power dress?
Jamie Banks: I think so. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: It's so pretty. Is it available now-
Jamie Banks: Well, it just makes me feel pretty. Yes, it is always available.
Johanna Almstea...: Always available at changeofscenery.com-
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: shopchangeofscenery.com.
Jamie Banks: I mean, obviously I do like a good high waisted jean because I think that makes you feel sucked in and put together and whatever, but I mostly just like to feel pretty.
Johanna Almstea...: Ladylike.
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: What is your go-to coping mechanism on a bad day?
Jamie Banks: I don't have one. I should be honest.
Johanna Almstea...: You're like, "I just stay miserable."
Jamie Banks: Yeah. I love like misery loves company. Does that count?
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah.
Jamie Banks: I'll call another founder or someone close to Change of Scenery just to, you don't have to say anything on the other end just to vent. Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: What is one thing for sure that you know right now in this moment?
Jamie Banks: I am proud of myself for starting to find a balance, starting finally.
Johanna Almstea...: I love that.
Jamie Banks: After three years.
Johanna Almstea...: Yeah. Okay. Tell people where they can find you and the brand. What's your Instagram? What's your website?
Jamie Banks: shopchangeofscenery.com and the Instagram is shopchangeofscenery. And yeah, we just got a store locator on the website because we have so many stores.
Johanna Almstea...: Amazing.
Jamie Banks: Yeah. So you can go on the website, you can see if there's a store near you because-
Johanna Almstea...: You guys, go try it on, it makes you feel good.
Jamie Banks: I don't know all the people. No, but I mean, we get all these orders on the website, which I'm grateful for. Obviously if there's no story you're near you order on the website, but I'm always like, "What size are you really? Do you need help with styling?"
Johanna Almstea...: Right.
Jamie Banks: I did stop reaching out to everybody that orders.
Johanna Almstea...: You're like, "Hi. I just want to double-check that that's what you want your order to be."
Jamie Banks: Me too. Or people order a top that doesn't really match the bottom, and I'm like, "Hi. I don't think you're going to be happy if you get this home or whatever." Yeah, I'm very judgy about the orders.
Johanna Almstea...: I actually think you did that to me. You were like, "I don't think you want that size."
Jamie Banks: Yeah.
Johanna Almstea...: And I was like, "No, I think I do."
Jamie Banks: Yeah. No, I do it all the time. It works out sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. But yeah, it means a lot to me when people say, "This is the best customer service I've ever gotten." And I'm always like, "I hope I can always do this."
Johanna Almstea...: You're like, "Jamie here, customer service, how can I help you?" They're like, "Wait, really Jamie? Like [inaudible 01:13:21] Jamie?"
Jamie Banks: Yeah. Someone asked me the other day why I don't have a chat bot on the website to help people with fit. And I'm like, because someone has to answer the chat bot, and that someone would be me.
Johanna Almstea...: Lack of human resources.
Jamie Banks: Yes. See, I'm learning my balance. See.
Johanna Almstea...: Look at you balancing.
Jamie Banks: Look at me balancing.
Johanna Almstea...: You're doing it. Well, I'm so proud of you. I'm so grateful for you for taking the time out of this crazy life that you're living right now to talk with me. I've loved having you here and I hope people are inspired by your story and your struggles and your risks that you've taken. So thank you. Thank you, thank you.
Jamie Banks: Thank you for having me. I'm so grateful for you. Thanks.
Johanna Almstea...: Well, that was super fun. Thank you all for joining us. I'm so grateful that you guys keep tuning in. If you've enjoyed this episode, please, please follow the podcast, subscribe, like it, share it, comment on it. Send it to any of your friends who you think might like it. As always, thank you so much for being here. This Eat My Words Podcast has been created and directed by me, Johanna Almstead. Our producer is Sophy Drouin. Our audio editor is Isabel Robertson. And our brand manager is Mila. Thank you.