Eat My Words

Johanna Almstead:
Hi, everyone. I am menu planning for my next guest and I'm excited because it's a little bit of a challenge. She's a vegetarian. She's also a new mom, like a brand new baby mom. So, I feel I want to make something that's really, really nourishing and super, super yummy.

So, I'm going to go a little like Asian fusion, I think. I'm going to start with a miso mushroom broth with just some really beautiful fresh scallions in it. Super simple, but just really, really, really nourishing. And then I'm going to do a crispy little caramelized tofu in lettuce cups. Kind of a take on lettuce cups with chicken, but without chicken. So, I'm going to do caramelized tofu in lettuce cups.

And then I'm going to do this delicious, it's like one of my favorite dishes. It's a Thai dish that's like a sauteed eggplant and red chili over rice. I'm going to do that, I think. I think that's going to be delicious.

And I'm not sure if she's really drinking much because I think she's breastfeeding and stuff. So, I might have a little bit of wine. I think I'd have some red wine just because it's going to be spicy and delicious. But I'll also have all kinds of fun non-alcoholic seltzers and maybe some non-alcoholic beers.

And there's some of these really fun non-alcoholic cocktails and stuff. I think those are really fun. So, we'll have a few of those on hand. So, it's going to be just like lots of good veggies and protein and spice and deliciousness to nourish her in this phase in her life.

And then for music, oof, I'm feeling some womanhood vibes. I'm feeling some Minnie Ripperton. Ooh, I'm feeling a little Tracy Chapman. I'm feeling a little Lauryn Hill and a little like Kate Bush. That's where I'm going tonight.

So, my next guest is so lovely. She's just really delightful. She writes about the beautiful moments in between the big moments of life. And she is super smart and super kind and has a beautiful heart, and I can't wait for you guys to meet her. So, let's dig in.

Hello everyone and welcome to Eat My Words. I am so thrilled for today's conversation because I'm a fan. I'm such a fan of my guest's today's work. She is a poet and author of the USA Today bestseller called Same. She is also a wife, a new mother to two girls, a friend, and a girl's girl to so many women who follow her on Instagram.

One of the pieces that got me right in the heart was her poem, Women at a Restaurant. I instantly shared it with friends who are some of my favorite people to share a table with. And if it's okay, I would love to start and share it with all of you just so we can sort of set the scene.

Women at a restaurant. There's a group of us, maybe four, five, six. We slide into a booth or into our own chairs, pull ourselves close to the table. We open menus, scan them for drinks. Any starters? The waiter asks and we say, "Please."

We are eager for good food, so we order plenty, savory, bready, anything that can be dipped in sauce. The drinks arrive, plates are placed on the table and we scoot in closer, arms touching as we begin to eat. Someone asks a question and we dive in. Listen closely as stories are told.

Have you ever been made to feel that your life, just as it is not poetry, that your words are not art, that eating isn't beautiful? I'm here to tell you it is. That it is divine that which happens among women as they sit around a table, as they enjoy food together, as they talk about all of the things that make up their lives.

Oh, gets me every time. Hannah Rosenberg, welcome to eat my words.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Thank you so much, Johanna. Oh my gosh. I loved hearing you read it.

Johanna Almstead:
Oh, yeah? I was a little nervous. All of a sudden I got like stage fright.

Hannah Rosenberg:
No, you did amazing. I love it.

Johanna Almstead:
Thank you. It's so funny because I think the reason that poem hit me so much was I really, truly believe, and if anyone has listened to this podcast, they know this, that there's real alchemy that happens when women who love each other sit across the table and share food and drinks.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Absolutely. I feel like the same too. I write lots of poetry about it. I love friendship and womanhood and being women together and being girls together. I love eating and food and writing about it, so all of the things, yes.

Johanna Almstead:
All the things. We're very aligned. Well, first, thank you so much for being here during what I know is a really bonkers time. You have a newborn baby.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I do.

Johanna Almstead:
And you have a big girl baby.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes.

Johanna Almstead:
You have two babies.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes.

Johanna Almstead:
And you're balancing it all. And I know that this time is precious and this time is wacky and this time is like the Twilight Zone. So, thank you for taking the time out to share this conversation with me. I feel very honored that you're taking this time out of this part of your life.

Hannah Rosenberg:
It is a gift to me. It is really, truly. I love these conversations. As we just said, I love talking to other women. So yeah, to be able to take an hour out of my day to do this really brings me a lot of joy. So, thank you for having me.

Johanna Almstead:
Thank you for being here. I love your work. It's so funny. So yesterday, I was prepping for this, and I was rereading your book and every fifth poem, I would screenshot it and take it and send it to a different friend. And I think I sold four of your books yesterday just because people are like, "Wait, what is this-"

Hannah Rosenberg:
Amaze you.

Johanna Almstead:
"... Who is this? I need more of this." But your work really, really resonates with me. And I think partially because of its simplicity in distilling down the goodness in life, the good parts in between the hard parts. And I think that that's just really extraordinary. So, thank you for your work.

I would love to hear your story because your story is unique, I think, and I would love to sort of get into it. We can talk more about the work in a little bit, but I would love to know sort of how you got to where you are now. Where would you say your story began?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. So, I was listening to your podcast this past week too, and I love how people say different things, sort of like the origin of their story. But I would say childhood. And a lot of what I like to write about is connecting to my childhood and connecting to that girl.

When I was growing up, I loved being creative. I loved theater. I loved writing. I loved writing creative stories. And as I grew, my parents were really supportive of that, which was wonderful.

I think I was really lucky to not have parents who ever said, "That's a nice hobby, but ignore it," or make me focus on more serious things. When I said I wanted to be an actress, they were like, "Great." When I said I wanted to be a writer, "Great."

Especially my mom really had the mindset, "You can do anything that you want to do. You just have to put your mind to it." She'd always say, "You can do anything. You can't do everything, but anything that you want."

So, I really grew up with that in mind that I really wanted to be a creative person. I wanted to do something creative with my life. Senior year of high school, I was just taking the English literature class that we had in my high school and we did a unit on poetry.

And that was really when that sparked for me that poetry actually is this really magical thing. It's not just this really elusive academic type of writing that I think we all get introduced to poetry as. It's something that we can't connect to. It's not something about our lives. I always had the thought that the less I understood it, the better it must be because-

Johanna Almstead:
The more important it was.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Right, right. The less about me, the more important. But we did this unit. I really fell in love with writing it. And I have a really specific memory of sitting in other classes in high school, jotting poems down in the corner of my notebook.

And then I kind of just moved on. I went to college. I would take poetry workshops when I could, but it wasn't something that I ever thought of pursuing really as a career. I always thought, "Oh, I'd love to be a writer. Maybe I'll write a novel or maybe I'll write a memoir or something like that."

And this was like a pipe dream. I didn't really know what I was going to do with it. But I took one course in college. I did a study abroad in college. I did a semester at sea where we live on a boat for a semester and take classes. And I did a poetry workshop on that, during that program.

Johanna Almstead:
I mean, that sounds dreamy.

Hannah Rosenberg:
It was, like writing poetry on a boat.

Johanna Almstead:
How much more poetic can you get?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I know. I know. My roommate during that program, who's still one of my best friends today, she laughs because she was like, "You would literally jolt up in the middle of the night and start furiously writing in this notebook." And yeah, I just loved it.

And the professor on that boat, I think it was the first time that I really felt like I kind of was like, "Oh, maybe I could pursue poetry. Maybe it is something that..." He made me feel like I was good at it, like I had a talent, like it was something that I could take seriously, which I am so grateful for. And so it just sparked this thing in my mind, maybe I could pursue this.

So after college, I did apply to some poetry MFA programs, just like a handful, didn't get into any of them. I applied to grad school for also medical anthropology because I did sociology in college. My uncle was a professor in this program, and I was like, "I think you would really love it. " It was in London.

So I was like, "Oh, great. This is another great option." Didn't get into any of the poetry programs, but got into this medical anthropology program. So I was like, "Okay, I'll do that and see where that takes me. And I guess writing will just be something that I'll do as a hobby."

So, I went to London, lived there for a year, started a career in healthcare. I worked at a hospital in quality improvement for several years, worked for a biotech company, working with patients and families, and then I would always just through my 20s and early 30s, I would write just as something that I was like, maybe someday kind of just this elusive idea.

And then COVID hit, I just turned 33. In my early 30s, I was living with my boyfriend at the time who I'm now married to and our lives went from like everyone else, being really busy, never having any time at home, traveling. I traveled a lot for work. We had this really busy social life. We were going to weddings every week. It was like that period of life.

And then overnight it became, there was nothing on our calendar. We were home all the time. We lived in this small apartment in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And I just found myself starting to write the type of poetry I write now, like prose poetry.

And in my mind, the tagline that I always had for myself is like, "I'm writing to find the magic in the ordinary." So, I love that you said it like that, to try for myself to really appreciate and find the good in life and use writing as a way to do that.

And so I was writing, I started writing every day and I said, "Okay, maybe this will be my COVID project. I'll write and maybe I can get a poem published in a magazine or journal or something." And I started submitting and like anyone who's done that, it's really hard to get anything published. [inaudible 00:11:25]

Johanna Almstead:
It's like a lot of rejection.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, I would just get a lot of like nice rejections from poetry journals or... And I think I was waiting, I think, like a lot of us do, like I was waiting for someone to validate like, "You are good enough to share your writing." And-

Johanna Almstead:
And then you weren't getting that, right?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I wasn't getting that.

Johanna Almstead:
Because you're getting rejections. Oh, that's so brutal.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. And poetry, especially any sort of writing, any sort of art, but for some reason poetry feels like... I was almost embarrassed to say that I like to do it and like to share it. I would share things with my husband and he would say like, "Oh, this is really good. You should share it. " He's a very supportive person, which is amazing. But then I was like, "Oh, I don't know. I'm not sure what to do with this."

And so I was writing, getting rejections, but still loving to write. It was so good for my mental health. And then that summer, I listened to a podcast where an artist talked about how she built her craft by forcing herself to share something once a week with her community. And so regardless of if she felt like it was good or finished or whatever, every Monday, because Mondays were like the boring day of the week, she would share this piece of art that she was working on. And for some reason that really influenced me. It struck a chord.

And so I told Mikhail, I said, "For a year, I'm going to start an account, and for a year I'm going to share one poem a week." And like same. I was like, "I'm going to share it on Mondays." And so I started doing that.

So, in August of 2020, I started the account, HannahRoWrites. I had had this Instagram account that I had like been doing a blog on before and that had not really gone anywhere. I'd grown a little board of doing that. And so I said, "Okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to post a poem every week and see what happens."

And a lot did happen, which we can talk about, but basically that was kind of the beginning of it. I loved it. I loved writing. I loved having a reason to write every week. At the beginning it was like, sometimes I would be like, "I don't know what to write about. I don't want to write about it." I would spend the whole week brainstorming and thinking.

But I gave myself permission to just like everything that I shared, I thought of this is a draft. I can take it down and edit it. And I did lots of times, but it really forced me to just practice the art of writing and sharing. And I think I was surprised how amazing the community was that started to form around the writing and how people would start to share back with me. So, that was the beginning of it.

Johanna Almstead:
And did you start to feel, once you started getting like comments on Instagram, I imagine, and people talking to you, did that feel like validation? Even though it wasn't from like a fancy poetry journal, was it just like normal people who your work was resonating with?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I think so. Yes. And I think that that was what like the lesson was for me that I'm still... There is no validation that is going to feel good enough ever if you're seeking this like higher power to give you a stamp and say, "You are good enough to share something." But what feels really amazing is when someone says, not like, "Oh, your writing is good," but like, "Your writing really touched me. It really made me feel seen and heard. It really resonated something."

People would start saying to me like, "You put into words things that I'm feeling, but couldn't find a way to say them." And that I think is the best validation. So, I got rid of the idea that I needed someone to tell me that I was good at writing and was like, okay, if I share something and nine out of 10 people roll their eyes, but one person says, "Oh my gosh, I feel seen by this poem, then that's worth it." And I think that that really changed my mindset.

Johanna Almstead:
Yes. I'm like, I have so many things I want to follow up with. I don't know where to start. So a couple of things I just want to like touch on here where we just did our anniversary episode, and I was thinking about themes that came up. And one of those themes was this idea of like just forcing yourself to do the thing.

And I think this idea of like giving yourself parameters/friction, like you have to post on Monday, I think that has come up so much. And I think there are so many women in particular, I think women in the middle part of their life who might have been doing something before, who either were caregivers or were super high level professionals or were mother... Or doing whatever.

They were doing something else and they're at this point where they're like, "Hey, I might have a little bit of brain space for something else." And they're too afraid to try it, right? You had the brain space because it was COVID. I think other people find it harder to do that.

And I keep going back to this idea of just start. Just do the thing and it doesn't have to be perfect. Don't let perfection get in the way of progress, like that whole thing. And this idea of-

Hannah Rosenberg:
And you don't have to know what the end is. You don't have to have like the roadmap if you do the first thing. It will [inaudible 00:16:06]

Johanna Almstead:
Right. Just do the first thing and then just commit to that. Commit to the idea that this... If you want to be a baker, bake a sourdough bread every week and give it to your neighbor. Just do the thing. And I think that it's so... People overthink it and get so complicated with it, but I just want to remind everyone who's listening, like that's as simple as it is.

It's you can just start. You can go just put some paint on a canvas and that's the thing, right? Get some clay and mold it. Just do the thing. So, I love that. Okay, did you get negative feedback at all in the beginning or was it mostly positive?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. I don't think that my account is big enough to draw like negative feedback. So, I've been really, I always say like the internet can be a really scary, horrible place, and it can be like a very supportive, wonderful place. And knock on wood, like I'm lucky enough so far to have my page be a wonderful supportive place.

Johanna Almstead:
You still live in the nice neighborhood.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I still live in it, yes. And not even just to me, like I've seen, and this like makes me tear up thinking about it, like people will post vulnerable comment or will share something that they're going through and like 10 people will like respond with support. And so in that way, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like a community and it's so beautiful and I'm not... The only thing that I'm doing is sharing my words and then other people are sharing theirs too, so yeah.

So, I think sometimes when I've shared things that feel political, I get messages and comments and I'm like, "Okay, this is my thoughts. These are my beliefs and you are free to read or not. I'm not telling you what to believe." But that's the only time that I've gotten trollish comments so far.

Johanna Almstead:
Got it.

Hannah Rosenberg:
So far, I probably would.

Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So you start this page, you start getting all this positive feedback, it shifts your mind because you're like, "Okay, I don't need this like higher poetry power to tell me that I'm good, and my work is resonating." And then what happens next?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. So the highlight real version, and then we can talk about that, is I love writing, I love sharing. I find that at the beginning of writing, it really takes me like a week to put something together. And then like anything, the more I do it, the more it becomes ingrained in my daily life.

So the more I'm like writing down ideas, I'm thinking through like what I want to write about. I'm like writing something that I can't wait to get back to my computer to write more. And so then it becomes like after a year where I'm like, I'm not necessarily posting every Monday, but I'm posting a lot. And like I called it poetry blogging because I was like, "I have something I want to write about and talk about, but my form of writing is this."

So, this is... My husband love journaling. I'm not someone who loves just like... When I have something that I want to work through, I write poetry. And so then I had this idea like, "Okay, maybe I couldn't publish a poetry book, maybe this could be something." But I had absolutely no idea how to do that.

As I said, I worked in healthcare, I didn't have a community of other writers that I knew. There's not a whole lot online about like how to get... It's basically like you find an agent, didn't know how to do that. So, I was trying to find an agent, again, was getting a lot of like rejections, people being like, "I don't work with poetry." And I was like, "Well, just look at my poetry. It's not... I don't know." It's [inaudible 00:19:18]

Johanna Almstead:
You might want to work with mine.

Hannah Rosenberg:
So basically, this was like 2020 to 2023. This was kind of all happening. I was writing, loving writing.

Johanna Almstead:
And you were submitting work to publishing houses or just trying to find an agent at that point?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Just trying to find an agent because I learned that you have to, basically, you have to have an agent to get anything published. So, this was like in my mind that I had to find an agent, but I also didn't know. I was like, okay, there's agents that represent poetry, and then there's agents that represent like women in memoirs. They're looking for that.

And I was like, "Well, my poetry is kind of..." I don't know. So, I was having a really hard time figuring out what to do, didn't have a lot of advice because I didn't know who to ask. I remember at one point I was like on a walk with my husband, we did this during COVID, obviously, we didn't have kids yet because I have really young kids, but we were living in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

We did a road trip where we lived in Austin, Texas for a few months. Then we went to Raleigh, North Carolina, and we were just trying to escape winter and work remote. We obviously were working remotely. And I remember being in Raleigh, this must have been like the spring of 2021, and we were going on a walk, and I was like, "Well, maybe I'm never going to have this dream of writing a book happen. I don't know." And I remember him being like, "Well, would you still write even if you knew it was never going to happen?"

And my honest answer was yes, because it improved my life so much to be able to write. I just felt like this was my purpose, not necessarily my purpose to share, but I had found the thing that fed my soul, and it seemed to really provide something for the world. And so I remember being like, "Yes, I would." I honestly...

And there had been so many other things I had done before where the answer would have been like no. It was like a means to an end, but this felt like, yes, I would just keep writing. Even if I knew there was never going to be a book, I was never going to be an author, I would keep doing this. So, that was like, I was in that mindset a little bit.

And then in the spring of 2023, I had my first daughter and I was working at a biotech company where I was on the patient affairs team. So, I was like traveling a lot, meeting with patients and families and speaking at workshops and conferences. And I did love what I did.

I felt really passionate about it, but I knew that it wasn't like I didn't want to move up in this career. I didn't want to go to the next step and I didn't want to go back to this job that I knew I would be traveling all the time. I felt really stressed out about that.

And so my husband and I had a conversation where I was like, "Okay, I'm going to go back and try it. Maybe I'll feel differently once I'm back from maternity leave, but if not, I'm going to take a break and really focus on can I maybe make writing more of my career and I'm going to take some time to be with my daughter." And so I made the decision that in January of 2024, I would put in my notice at work.

And in December of 2023, and this had literally never happened, like I am telling you, Johanna, every person that I had shared my work with had been like, "No, no, thank you, good luck." Except readers, people who were reading online.

Johanna Almstead:
Right. The ultimate consumer was like, yes, but the people in between that you needed to get it to this other consumer were like no.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. And plenty of people self-published their work. I didn't want to do that. That felt like overwhelming and stressful to me and I didn't know how to do that. So, I really did want to work with a publisher.

And so in December of 2023, in the course of one week, two editors from different publishing houses reached out to me, and basically, I think this story is really cool because I don't think they were looking for like poets or like the next poet to publish, but both of them said, "We're recently postpartum too. We've had our first baby and your work really resonates with us. We've been falling along. Our friends have been sending us your poems."

And they were saying this separately, but their messages were very similar. And I literally couldn't believe it. I was like, "Am I getting punked? What is happening?" And in the grand scheme of things, yeah, three years, but three years to me felt like, "Okay, this is never going to happen." But then from there, both editors were amazing. It just so happened-

Johanna Almstead:
And they were in two different publishing houses. One was in the UK, was that right?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, it was.

Johanna Almstead:
So, one end up was in the UK and one was in the US. So, you got basically two book deals.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, yes. So, I ended up through that process signing with an agent, Ariel, who's amazing, working with both of those editors. So, Sarah at St. Martin's Press and McMillan, and then I also have a book deal with Harper Collins in the UK. So, it ended up that I could work with both of them because they were in different regions. And then I wrote my first book, and it came out in this past October and October 2025. And so, yeah, so...

Johanna Almstead:
It's such a good story. So, I just want to pause here for a second because I think for listeners, it always feels like somebody else is getting the book deal, right? It feels like somebody else is getting the book deal, somebody else is getting the good business deal, somebody else is getting the real estate that you wanted. I don't know. I feel like there's a lot in life that feels hard and feels like, why did they make it look so easy? And you do make it look easy, but-

Hannah Rosenberg:
And I still feel like that all the time. That's just our mindset, right? We're always like, "Oh, somebody else has this. Somebody else got this. How did they do that? It's so easy." Blah, blah, blah.

Johanna Almstead:
But I think it's so important to focus on the two things, which were, number one, you didn't stop. You kept putting your work out and actually putting your work out was what found these two agents for you. It wasn't actually looking for the agent. It was actually putting the workout, which I think is...

We just talked about this with Daisy de Villeneuve last week. She was just talking about how someone gave her that advice as an artist when she was in art school and they just said, "Show your work wherever you can." Even if it's not the fanciest gallery or the biggest museum, show your work wherever you can because you never know who's going to see it.

And so I think that that's what you were doing was you were by doing the Instagram and posting pretty regularly and just churning out the work, like doing the work. I think it's just so important. And then I love that it was just like to women who were empathizing and feeling all the same things, that that's how it happened.

I think it's so interesting when I think of so many of the good business deals I've ever made in my life or been a part of have been because of like a very personal connection, right? Yes, it's got to be beneficial to both parties and whatever, but it's usually because there's a human connection.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. I don't have a ton of advice about being an artist and I've only done it this one path, but I'm like, the one thing that I feel like is exactly what you said, like share your art. Don't hold it back because you're waiting for someone to be like, "Okay, now it's good to share." Share it and then hopefully eventually the right person will see it, and you can do what you want to do eventually.

And I think the other thing, I feel like I've heard of this a lot with other habits. My husband loves James Clear and is always telling me Atomic Habit kind of hacks. And I feel like there's something about getting in shape. And it's like most people stop because they don't see results right away, but the people that are successful keep doing the habit even when nothing's happening and then eventually those are the people that...

And I feel like that's the same thing with art or with anything. There's a long period of time where nothing's happening and most people will be like, "Okay, whatever," like throw in the towel, try something new. But when you find something that you love and you keep doing it and you keep doing it, you keep doing it with repetition. Even when nothing's happening, I think that's when the magic happens and...

Johanna Almstead:
I love the idea of treating it like a habit. It doesn't have to be even more complex than that. Because I think a lot of people, also creative people and people who don't think of themselves as creative, I believe everyone's creative if they can just get there, but it's like they think there's like some bigger artistic process that has to happen. And it probably does somewhere along the line, but also just the part of just doing the thing as a habit every day, again, presents the boundary, like pushes you to do something, and then sometimes creativity is what comes out of it, hopefully, usually.

Okay. So now you published the book in two countries, right? Is that how that worked?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. Yeah. In two regions. So, the US and Canada and then the UK and then any... There's like other countries that are like part of the UK's region, yes, yeah. So it's out in a lot of countries, but yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
And how did it feel to see it physically, because here it is. I have so many Post-its, to see it physically, but also to see it in a bookshop or see it online in a store. How did that feel? Because some people have mixed feelings about seeing their work out in the world.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. I mean, amazing. It felt so cool. I feel like I said earlier, a lot of what I process through writing and what I'm... I just turned 39 and I feel like I'm like, a lot of this time period I feel like is, I don't know, like connecting to my younger self, and like processing who I was and how I can keep that person, take care of that person. And so I don't know, I thought about that so much when I would go into a bookstore and I would be like, "Oh my gosh, like my younger self is seeing this." I can't exactly put it into words, but it really felt like this kind of like mystical experience where I was like showing my younger self who we became. And that felt really special for me.

Johanna Almstead:
Wait, you have a poem about this.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. It's the first poem [inaudible 00:28:55]

Johanna Almstead:
I'm like looking right now-

Hannah Rosenberg:
I can't say it in words, but I could read you a poem about it.

Johanna Almstead:
Can you, please?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, yes, yes. Okay. So, this is the first poem of the book. It's called Me As a Woman, Me As a Girl. It's great.

Johanna Almstead:
And I love this woman. Okay, good.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Me as a woman, me as a girl. We met the other day, me as a woman, me as a girl. We looked each other up and down, shy at first. "It's you," we both said laughing. "It's you."

Me as a girl spoke first. "I like how you go walking whenever you want, how you drink coffee by the window and write like I always thought I would." "I love your home," she said, looking around. "It feels just right. I'd like to live here too."

"I hoped you would," Me as a woman said. "I love your confidence, how proud you are, how special you feel." "Not always," me as a girl said. "Sometimes I feel sad. Sometimes I'm cruel." "We all do. We all are," me as a woman, said.

Me as a woman and me as a girl looked at each other. "We can't exist at the same time, not exactly, but maybe a part of me can stay with you somehow?" Asked me as a girl. Me as a woman smiled. "I'd like that," she said. "I've been waiting my whole life to take care of someone like you."

Johanna Almstead:
It kills me. It kills me. Thank you.

Hannah Rosenberg:
It is a pretty emotional thought to think of your younger self as this person that you're living your life for.

Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Did you have a picture back then of, when you were a little girl, did you have a picture of what sort of success or what having it all would mean?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I think I did. I think I've always been someone who's loved daydreaming about the future and dreaming about what things will be like in the future. Even now, my husband and I, our favorite dates are getting a coffee and going for a walk and talking about our travel plans and our plans for the home we want to have someday and things we want to do with our girls. So yes, I think I did have this kind of idea of the life that I would want.

And I thought about being an author a lot. That was something that I really didn't think about. And so, I try to really remember that and keep that kind of idea with me because the other side of it is like everything can become normalized. Anything can become like, cool, okay, yeah, that's a book in a bookstore, but it's not the book that they're... It's not like when you walk in, the first book they recommend, and it's not this and it hasn't sold a million comedy. So, you can always get into that mindset, and I really try to not go there.

Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. To just be in the moment for what it is.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. And think about how amazing things are.

Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. It's hard though. I think I just had this conversation with my best friend the other day of like, she's in like a big transition mode time and she keeps going to this default setting of like, not failure, but like things not being right. And I was like, "But things are right. They're just different and they're changing and it's like a new evolution, but just because the sand is shifting beneath you or whatever, it doesn't mean that it's not success. This is still success. And there's other kinds of success that you can still dream about, but you have to give yourself the moment of this is still success."

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. And I think actually writing is a tool for me to try to do that because I feel like in my life... I was talking to my husband a lot about this recently. I have these periods of time where I'm like, everything is perfect and everything's amazing, and blah, blah, blah.

And then I have periods of time where I'm like, I could pick apart anything. Anything is not good enough and I could complain and in my mind it will just be this constant loop. And I feel like one of the things that I've been trying to work on this past decade or two decades is really trying to be like, you could have everything you ever wanted and still find a way to pick apart what you don't have.

And I really think it is like the mindset of being like, everything can look different ways. And so choosing to see things in a good way and choosing to pick out the good in what you have. And I feel like what I use writing for is to do that, is really to [inaudible 00:33:11]

Johanna Almstead:
Sort of force yourself into it.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. Yeah, because people are like, "Oh, do you always see the glasses half full? Because your writing is so positive." And actually, no. I'm someone who can complain all day if I'm in that mood. And so writing for me is like the way to help change that mindset for me.

Johanna Almstead:
Do you know The Book of Delights by Ross Gay?

Hannah Rosenberg:
No.

Johanna Almstead:
Oh my God, you need it.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I love that title.

Johanna Almstead:
Similarly, oh, you have to read it. And he's like amazing. Similarly, he like sort of forced himself into this practice. His is actually the writing is specifically about the delights, but of having a daily practice of recognizing the delightful things in life as opposed to the picking apart part, because he also talks about having the tendency to...

Hannah Rosenberg:
Pick things apart.

Johanna Almstead:
Pick things apart. And he said, just talk to his partner at home. She would say, but he can be quite negative and quite sort of, and it makes her laugh that he has a book called The Book of Delight, but it was a very conscious practice and it's very, very good. Listeners also should read it.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Okay, I just wrote it down.

Johanna Almstead:
But I love that because I do think it is so easy in this day and age, especially with social media and the FOMO and everybody else has something else you want. And I do think it's like we need to get back to that lo-fi, just like analog delight. And I've been trying to do it just in the little...

I live in a very beautiful place, and I have like really tried to force myself to like stop. I had such a funny moment the other day. I was driving on our road and there's a really beautiful section. You come around this big bend and it's like this gorgeous, just rolling hills, gorgeousness.

And there was like a pack of wild turkeys, and they were so silly. They just looked so... They're huge and ridiculous. And I literally just stopped and like cracked up at the turkeys. And I was like, this is what I have. I have to stop all the like...

Because otherwise you miss the moments, right? You miss the moments of the crazy turkeys on my road. And I think it's like those start to put things in perspective, and they start to be like, oh, maybe that job didn't mean as much. Or that weird interaction that I had at the grocery store with that other mom who I don't really like, maybe that doesn't matter because there's wild turkeys out here.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, yes, 100%. And I post on social media, like social medias where I share poems and my community lives. And so I think there's a beautiful place for that. But I also really think scrolling on social media, it will get all of us. Sometimes I'm like, "Oh, I'm just going to do a little scroll. It's not going to affect my mood." It always does.

Johanna Almstead:
It always does.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I'm really trying to put down the phone. I saw on social media, of course, this thing that was like, "Don't have your phone as another limb."

Johanna Almstead:
Like an appendage, yes.

Hannah Rosenberg:
An appendage, yes.

Johanna Almstead:
If you're bringing it from room to room, you have a problem.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, sitting on the couch with it and putting it here and putting it... It was like speaking like if you have small children. And so I'm really trying, okay, let me set it down, and I do not need to have it with me all the time. So yeah, I would-

Johanna Almstead:
A couple weeks ago, I went away for just a quick weekend, and we had a baby shower. We had a lot of busy family stuff. But for one day, I basically was just like, "I don't need my phone. I'm with everybody. I'm with my family. I'm with everybody. Nothing dramatic's going to happen." People knew I wasn't working. And I left my phone in my beach bag. I didn't even touch it all day.

And I felt different. I felt better. I was like, "Why do I feel so..." I mean, yes, I was on the beach and I drank some rose, but also I was like, something feels better. And then it was like the minute I picked up my phone and started getting the alerts for the field hockey game and the... And I just was like, "Oh my God, this-"

Hannah Rosenberg:
And your mind goes this, this, this.

Johanna Almstead:
Yes.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, Yeah. I know.

Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So speaking of which, do you have any rituals or routines that you keep or put in place to protect your sort of artistic brain and your artistic flow?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Okay, so I know I talked about this a little earlier. I feel like I used to have really... When I started writing, it would be like, "This is my writing time. I'm sitting down. I'm closing the door. I'm putting away my phone." I've always written on my laptop, that's just like, I know some people write by pen, but for me, writing on the laptop is how I get into the flow.

And then I always will send myself ideas. So I'll take notes down, send them to myself in daily life because I write about daily life. I write about, like I said, poetry blogging, whatever's coming to mind. I feel like it has gotten more incorporated into like, "Oh, I'm walking and I have this idea and I'm starting to write this poem in my mind and I'm going to type down some things on my phone and then I'm going to come back to it later."

But a lot of poems are written like when I'm sitting in the car now when my daughters are sleeping in the backseat, or I'll be laying in bed at night and have an idea and kind of pop up and write something down. And so it is on the go right now.

I think I have, we talked about like vision. I think I have this vision of myself sitting at like a beautiful... I don't live at the beach, but like a beach-side desk where I can look out and see the ocean and write like a Diane Keaton movie. Like that-

Johanna Almstead:
Like Elin Hilderbrand in Nantucket.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, yes, yes. Oh my gosh. That's like my dream to live her writing life, like Nantucket. And then she goes to Beacon Hill in Boston, which I'd like to have for writing [inaudible 00:38:21]

Johanna Almstead:
And she goes to St. John too, St. John or St. Thomas. She goes to one of the-

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. Some of her books take, I'm a huge Elin Hilderbrand fan. I'll read anything she writes. Yes, so she goes to this island.

That's not my current life. My current writing life is like writing when I'm sitting on the toilet, when I'm sitting in the car, but everything is a season of life, like maybe someday, but yes, that's kind of my current thing. And then I think that, this is less a ritual, but something that has helped me, I try to not monitor what I'm writing down, not being like, "Oh, that's not a full idea. I'm not going to write it down." Because I feel like the more you limit yourself, then you're like cutting off an idea before it happens.

Johanna Almstead:
You're not editing it during the process. You're just letting it be writing down.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, I'm not over editing myself. Yes, exactly, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
That was one thing I learned in a writing class that I took that was very much just like, just write the words, like do not erase, do not stop, do not delete, just write the words first and then you can edit it later. And again, I think that's just good advice for life. Just do the thing first.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. Don't write like someone's reading it. Write like you're just writing it, your ideas and then... Yeah, go back.

Johanna Almstead:
I love also the fact that you're just like, a writer's got to write, man. And if it means that it's in the car with your two babies sleeping in the backseat and in a parking lot, in a grocery store, whatever, that that's happening. And I think that's another thing that I hear from a lot of people is like, "I don't know how to do it and I don't have a setup for it and I don't have the right light and I don't have the right space and I don't have the right mindset." And it's like you're not going to ever have the perfect thing. And so sometimes it's just about doing the thing, finding the place to do it and it doesn't have to be picturesque. It doesn't have to be beautiful.

Hannah Rosenberg:
[inaudible 00:39:59] stress, and you don't have to fit the version of what you think, whatever you're doing, like that person has to be. I think that also got in my way a lot, like thinking a poet has to be these things and even-

Johanna Almstead:
A poet has to be like writing with a feather quill on a scroll.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, like I can't write on a laptop. And also I can't be... I'm a super social person. For some reason, I was like, "A poet has to want to be more alone." I don't know. I had these ideas where I was like telling myself I wasn't that.

And I think one of the things I also, other than sharing my poetry that I feel passionate about spreading as a message is like, a poet can be anything. A poet or like whatever you want to be can be anything. You don't have to fit the version of who you thought whatever had to be. So, I love when someone says like one of my poems in my book is ideas of how to make a gynecology appointment better and you can write about gynecology appointments. You can write about, like whatever is happening in your life is a poem. It doesn't have to be about like this, I don't know, like walk in the woods or whatever. I'm not like not that that's bad, but it doesn't have to be this thing that like feels-

Johanna Almstead:
That's prescribed.

Hannah Rosenberg:
... different... Yes, than your normal life, in your day-to-day life.

Johanna Almstead:
Do you know Andrea Gibson's work?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Johanna Almstead:
Did you see the documentary?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I haven't, but yes, yes.

Johanna Almstead:
I mean maybe in your current state of postpartum.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, I know.

Johanna Almstead:
Maybe don't.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I know.

Johanna Almstead:
Because you might never stop crying.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I might stay away from things that, yes, that will make me fall into a deep sadness.

Johanna Almstead:
I mean it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful, but it's very raw. But Tig Notaro is someone who... She's became a friend of theirs, but also ended up being one of the producers on the documentary. But she talks about the first time she met Andrea Gibson.

And for those people who are listening who don't know Andrea Gibson, Andrea Gibson is this like non-binary kind of rockstar-poet that just was in this incredible documentary about the actually end of their life. But Tig talks about seeing Andrea Gibson on stage for the first time and she was like, "What do you mean? This isn't a poet. What do you mean? Poets are supposed to be like romantic and wearing a flowy blouse."

And this chick is like a rock star. They're tight jeans and they're ripped sleeveless t-shirt, and this whole idea of that it really blew Tig's mind to try to wrap her head around like what her idea of what a poet was and that Andrea Gibson was exactly the opposite of that.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, I love that.

Johanna Almstead:
So, I think it is funny of like we put these ideas, societal ideas, about what someone is supposed to be and then if you don't fit in that, can you not be a poet? Can you not be a chef? Can you not be an artist?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yep, yep.

Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, is there anything that you once believed about yourself that you've since outgrown?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Ugh. I think that I believe that I had to... I would feel like I had arrived or like I was good enough when I had validation. When I had someone say, "Yes, you can write, you're a writer." And I think that what I've realized is it made me feel most like a writer when I started writing.

And also even when I got the book deal, when the book was published, when people read the book, when people sent me screenshots of, "I saw your book in this bookstore, this, whatever," none of that made me feel like, "Okay, you're good." It was only my mindset. It was only my... I still have crazy imposter syndrome all the time. I'm still like, "Oh, this is this and this." And so-

Johanna Almstead:
"I'm a poet, but I'm not a real poet."

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. Yes, exactly. And I think that, and then I'm like, "Nope, let's stop that." So, I think that it's not what happens externally, it's like what happens internally and how you talk to yourself, what you... I love the phrase you should be kind to yourself because it's really hard to be happy when someone's mean to you all the time. And I think about that a lot. So yes, I don't know if that answers your question exactly, but I think that really focusing on my inner dialogue and how I'm working through my own thoughts is the most important thing instead of like getting the thing.

Johanna Almstead:
And it's interesting to me that like that validation that you were seeking by getting an agent or whatever, you ended up getting, you did get it.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
And it still didn't work, right?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
Right. That's huge. I think that's important for people to know because I do think there's a little bit of this like, "Well, when I get an agent and when I get a book deal-"

Hannah Rosenberg:
Then I feel good, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
"... when I'm going to do this, I'm going to feel like I've arrived," or, "I'm going to feel successful," or "I'm going to..." And I'm not sure it's even in human nature to ever be satisfied.

Hannah Rosenberg:
And I feel like we hear that from famous actors and actresses. I just don't think I ever really believed it. When someone that you think is like such a successful actor actress is like, "I'm worried about getting the next job." You're like, "Really? How?"

But I think it is, it's like human nature to think like that and to feel like that. And so it really is, instead of like trying to get the thing, it's like working on your own on how you talk and how you see yourself.

Johanna Almstead:
You've had several now. What is an achievement that you're most proud of though?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Writing or life?

Johanna Almstead:
No, it can be anything, life, family, friendship.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I mean, I think like the relationship that I have with my daughters feels like my most important task in life and raising them to be strong, confident, happy people. I feel like that feels like this gift of a task that as parents we're able to do, I feel like that's a huge accomplishment if we can raise the next generation to save the world.

Johanna Almstead:
Totally. You have a poem about that.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
Girls are superheroes? What is it?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, a few. So, the first section of my book is all like for our younger selves. There are a lot of... I think in my daydream, our daughters are strong, I try to talk about that. Teenage girls are superheroes.

Johanna Almstead:
Wait, I think you should... Can you read In My Daydream, Our Daughters Are Strong?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. Yes.

Johanna Almstead:
Page 19.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Page 19, yes. In my daydream, our daughters are strong. They learn words like capable, confident, resilient. They aren't taught to be careful in ways you are careful with a vase because it is fragile, something meant to look at something you might break.

They are careful like how you are careful with something you love, something that makes you proud. They don't worry that they have too many needs or take up too much space. They don't wonder if they are small enough or liked enough.

They wonder about the world and how to make it better, how to soak up all the good in life. They ask each other, "What makes your heart sing?" They talk of their own courage. They lead with joy.

Johanna Almstead:
They talk of their own courage.

Hannah Rosenberg:
And when I was reading this, I was thinking about, you've been a parent longer than I have. I think one of the things that I'm really trying also to do... A friend told me this recently, she's a psychologist and she was saying, "Kids don't learn by what you say. They learn by what you do."

And so they learn by how you treat yourself and you talk to yourself. And so I constantly try to think of that. If I tell my daughters, "Tell yourself you're amazing every day," or, "You should be your own best friend." To really teach them that, I have to practice that instead of just saying it. So, that feels like a momentous task, but...

Johanna Almstead:
I have a thing where, because my mom always talked really badly about herself. She always talked, especially her appearance, and I hated it. And so I have this thing where if we're looking at pictures or something, I'll say, "Oh, aren't we so cute? We're so cute. Look at how gorgeous we are." And it feels in me, like my kids, I don't even know if they've noticed what I'm saying-

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, which is real, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
But in me, it feels like this huge, like I'm smashing some old, crazy, archaic thing just by saying that, just by being like, "I'm not going to downplay us. I'm not going to..."

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. My mom would always do this thing, and it was out of love, I think. She would always say such positive things about us, but it would be like, "Oh, you're prettier than me." I almost wish she would have talked about herself in that way, like you're saying, you're not belittling yourself to put someone else up.

Johanna Almstead:
To make someone else feel better.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, yes. And that's what I feel very passionate about doing. And also, there's room for everyone. We should say kind things about all people, all women. It's not just saying kind things about our own children and it's like-

Johanna Almstead:
Right, right, just because you're smart and beautiful and-

Hannah Rosenberg:
Doesn't mean other people aren't.

Johanna Almstead:
Funny, doesn't mean other people can't be, right?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
I do also love the line, "They don't worry that they have too many needs or take up too much space." That, I have to say as a parent, I find hard sometimes because there are so many needs, and sometimes the needs feel not so important, right? And so I'm always like, I can find myself being snippy about... It's usually when it's about something materialistic or time that I don't have.

And then I have to stop and be like, "Are you serious?" And I have to stop myself and be like, "They're allowed to want it." Even if I don't want them to want it or if whatever, they're allowed to want it, and they're not wrong for asking.

So, you do a lot of this in your writing, but I always like to ask this question, of course, your girls probably aren't going to listen to this for a very long time. But what do you want your girls to know about this time in your life?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I think that I want them to think of me as being very joyful in the journey, so being excited about things that I was doing, loving work. I think that it's so important for kids to see their parents love what they do and if that's not the day job that you have, like things that you're doing outside of that. But for now, writing is my career.

So, I'm able to do that at least now. So, I want them to see me as loving what I'm doing on a daily basis and yeah, being kind and gentle with myself and not beating myself up when I don't feel great about things and talking to myself like I talk to them. So, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
It's funny, I guess, as you were talking about that, I just thought about, is it Anne Lamont who wrote the book about trying to balance motherhood and art? Now I'm forgetting what the book is, but I just had this moment of, I feel like the old paradigm for a lot of women artists was like, they had a really hard time separating it from motherhood or like that one would be a sacrifice to the other or like one would have to sacrifice.

And it just occurred to me that like your work is so fueled by your role as a mother now. And so it's nice that it's... It's not like you have to be like, "Children go away, must lock the door so that I can concentrate on my work."

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes.

Johanna Almstead:
I think that that's really beautiful and I hope, I think that that's one of the things that this world sort of technology and working from home and all these other new evolutions in the last several years, that that allows for more women to blend their artistic side, their work side, their creative side, their whatever work it is that they're doing, with their motherhood in a way that feels less bifurcated.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I'm very happy that my life is what I write about. So yes, I don't have to be like, "I need a break from my life to do this." It's like my life is what I'm writing about.

At the same time, I want to validate for anyone who's like, "But how do you..." I do need support to be able to-

Johanna Almstead:
For sure.

Hannah Rosenberg:
... write and write a book and share online. So, it's not like... Sometimes I feel like I hear people be like, "Oh, I just do it during nap time." And for me, that has never worked. I need-

Johanna Almstead:
Oh, hell no. That did not work for me.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I can't do anything. I'm like, I can barely throw a load of laundry in during nap time, and nap time's not consistent. And also sometimes I just want to do something for myself. I want to go for a walk and I-

Johanna Almstead:
Or take a shower, eat a meal.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, yeah. I want to... So, I rely on childcare, and I do need time to be able to do it. It's not something I can just whip up a book in the spare moments of my day. So yes, kind of [inaudible 00:52:43]

Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I think that's an important clarification. I think that's really... Yeah, people, she's not writing an award-winning book while she's nursing and putting her other baby down. She's getting help and support and it's-

Hannah Rosenberg:
You need help, yes.

Johanna Almstead:
And everyone needs it.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Everyone needs it. Should never feel bad that someone's able to do everything without support. I think when I first had my first daughter, I had this mindset like I have to do everything and-

Johanna Almstead:
Oh, hell no.

Hannah Rosenberg:
... I really had to dismantle that because I can't.

Johanna Almstead:
Yes. I have a family member who is having a baby soon and I'm like, "Girl, staff up. Just staff up." And people are-

Hannah Rosenberg:
As many people who can help you, great.

Johanna Almstead:
As many people are going to help you, and it's because here's the deal, it's so funny. My friend just posted this the other day, her eldest is turning 10, and she was feeling all the feels and having sort of a moment. She posted this lovely video and she was like, "I'm proud and I'm excited about who she is." And she's like, "And I also just realized that I have been on the clock 24 hours a day for the last 10 years."

And it's true. I've been a parent now for 12 years, there's no break, right? And so I always try to say this with people who are just having babies or have just had babies or in the early parts because I still need help now and I'm tired. I'm tired from doing it for 12 years. She's like, "I literally punched in 10 years ago and I haven't punched out. It doesn't matter that you might be whatever."

The mental load, it doesn't ever get easier. So, I think that I've been trying really hard to... Another family member of mine was like, "Well, this person doesn't have a job outside of work and why does she need a nanny?" And I was like, "Because it's hard and you need to sleep and you need to eat and you need to shower."

And again, I know it's not possible for everybody to have a paid help, but if you have family members, if you have neighbors, if you have a church where you can drop your kid off for a couple hours, I always say to people, take the help you can. I have a friend who's just, I was just feeling very stressed about the load and she's like, "Can I just pick up your kids from school for a few days?" And I was like, "Yes, you can. "

And she's not asking to be paid. She's just trying to help. And I think you have to remember it, and you have to be okay with it because I also came from a family where help was frowned upon. And there was a lot of pride in doing it all yourself.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Doing everything yourself, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
And like, no, it's okay. No, there's certain things I do want to do myself still and I still do almost all of it myself, but there are a lot of things. And again, it's like you're in this stage where it's like they're talking about now postpartum like the stuff that happens in your brain, like it takes like seven years.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Years, yes.

Johanna Almstead:
Seven years to heal from some of that stuff. So like those seven years, you're also not off the clock by the way. So for me, it's really important to just like, again, not just to feel your creativity, which is important and to feel your career, which is important, but also to nourish yourselves and bolster the pillar that you're going to be for these children for the rest of their lives. I'm very, very, very adamant about it.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Me too. Me too. And I think my trick in my mind is when I'm starting to be like, "Okay, I don't need to do this yoga video today." Or, "Okay, I don't need to go for a walk." Or, "Oh my gosh, I'm not a great mom because I'm not good at cooking. I don't like cooking."

It's not like I've just become a mom and overnight I'm start being this like, "I love food, I love eating," that's not my thing. So, I feel like what I try to tell myself is like, if my girls someday have kids or if my nieces have kids, what would I say to them? And I'm never like, oh, you would be like, "Don't do that yoga video." You just-

Johanna Almstead:
Right, don't go on that walk to clear your mind.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, don't want that walk. "Oh yeah, you're not a great mom. Your kids will only be raised well if you're able to make elaborate dishes." You would never say that and you don't think that. So, that's like what I try to do when I'm starting to have those spiraling thoughts.

Johanna Almstead:
That's a really good reminder. That's a really good reminder because I'm very, very hard on myself. And I feel I'm like judgier on myself than I think anyone else is, which is so stupid.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, we all are. It's like, what would you say to your kids or what would you say to a friend if you don't have kids or... I'm like, I would never say that to a friend because I don't believe it. I don't actually think that any of this stuff is true. It's just we talk to ourselves that way.

Johanna Almstead:
Right. My niece who's about to have a baby was like, I was asking her like, "What's your postpartum plan and what support do you want from me and how and whatever?" And she was talking about at some point like, "Well, the family coming over and hosting brunch."

And I was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're not hosting brunch. You're not hosting brunch with a newborn, absolutely not." And she looked at me sort of funny, and I was like, "Mm-mm, no, no, no, no, that's not it. If someone wants to come for brunch, they can bring the brunch and feed you."

Hannah Rosenberg:
[inaudible 00:57:32], yes, yes, exactly.

Johanna Almstead:
And she was like, "Really?"

Hannah Rosenberg:
And they clean up your kitchen and they can help.

Johanna Almstead:
Throw a load of laundry in and also, by the way, hold the baby so you can take a shower. But it was interesting because her brain starts... She's not there yet. You don't know what you don't know, right? So, you don't know what's going to happen next. Okay, so how do you nourish yourself?

Hannah Rosenberg:
So, movement is really important for me, so walking, jogging, yoga, that always... 10 out of 10 makes me feel better if I am feeling down or feeling low, any sort of movement. I've been having postpartum aches and pains. So, I just feel like everything hurts right now, but I'm trying to be like... Kind of you said, it is a journey, it's a process. It's not like you hit six weeks, and you're like, "Great, all healed up and ready to go." No, that was [inaudible 00:58:17].

Johanna Almstead:
And also rest sometimes is what it needs to be.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, yes. You need to rest your body to be able to move it well too, but that makes me feel good. I really recently, I am not a bath person. It's never been my thing, but I'm getting into it. I've recently got some things to make the bath more luxurious, like a bath tray and some better bath bubbles.

I think it's because my home is so chaotic now with two little, little, little kids that like being like, "Okay, I'm going to go in the bath right now and take 30 minutes to sit in this room by myself." It has been really [inaudible 00:58:50]-

Johanna Almstead:
Good for you.

Hannah Rosenberg:
... and felt better." And we have a very small home, and the one bathtub is in our common bathroom in the hallway. And so I told my husband last week, I was like, "I'm going to go to the bath. I'm going to light some candles and make it this whole experience and bring my book in and bring a drink in." And I did that.

And the whole time my three-year-old daughter stood outside, I locked the door because I knew she would come in and blow out the candle. They were all in the living room. She stood outside of the door and was like, "Mama, how's your bath? Are you still in the bath? How's the bath?" The whole time.

But I was like, again, like we just said, I was like, "I'm having a great bath. Thanks."

Johanna Almstead:
Thanks.

Hannah Rosenberg:
"I'm [inaudible 00:59:25] my time. Thanks for asking, but still not going to open the door. I'm still having this bath inaudible 00:59:31]."

Johanna Almstead:
Thanks for your support.

Hannah Rosenberg:
So she's like, "Okay, I'm just going to stand out here." I'm like, "Okay."

Johanna Almstead:
Oh man, it's so hard.

Hannah Rosenberg:
So yeah, so I've recently got into bath. And then writing and reading, reading is hard for me these days. So audiobooks, it's hard for me to sit down with a book and get through it, but audiobooks are like my thing now. So, I get in the car for 10 minutes, I turn on my audiobook, it makes me feel like this escape.

Yeah, so little things like that, and then time with friends. So, we haven't talked about this much, but usually it's something I love to talk about. I mean, friendship is so, so, so important to me. And I think that the farther you get along in life, the more you realize how much you rely on your friends and how much joy they bring and how they are life sustaining relationships.

So yeah, I think just like a call with friends, getting coffee with someone, when we can, getting a meal together, going out to dinner with friends is like my favorite thing. Dreaming and planning up girls' trips that we'll take in the future. So that is definitely very, very important to my mental health.

Johanna Almstead:
Very important. I have to say too, as my kids got older, one of my favorite things to do was like to be able to go out to a meal with my kids and their kids. When you have friends who have kids about roughly the same age or somewhere that they can at least hang out with. They're older than your kids at this point, so you're not bothered, but they can run off and go play on the sidewalk or whatever.

And you and your friend can sit and have a glass of wine and have a meal. And when I figured that part out and they got old enough, I was like, okay, this is manageable. This is good. I can do this.

Hannah Rosenberg:
We're living a good life. Yes. Toddlers are the absolute worst, absolute worst, [inaudible 01:01:09].

Johanna Almstead:
The worst, the worst, yeah.

Hannah Rosenberg:
But what I didn't realize the first time that I am now, the benefit of second child, is babies are amazing before they get to like-

Johanna Almstead:
Totally.

Hannah Rosenberg:
So, two of my friends who also just had their second baby, we all went out to dinner a few weeks ago with our two-month-old and they just slept in their car seat the entire time. And we had a lovely dinner.

So, that's what I always tell people who are having their first kid, I'm like, "You don't realize it, but go out with the baby." Because they're great to take out. [inaudible 01:01:38]

Johanna Almstead:
Early, yeah. They're also easy to travel with at that point. They're so easy.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. I totally understand. If you don't want people to touch them, because if germs, just put the carrier down. They will sleep the whole time. They are overstimulated by noise. So, it is there, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
I used to just take myself out to lunch sometimes with my baby and sit and book and just keep her in the BabyBjorn, leave it on my chest.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, you said you like to dream. What are you dreaming about these days?

Hannah Rosenberg:
So, it was my birthday yesterday and on my birthday-

Johanna Almstead:
Happy birthday.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Thank you. I always like to write dreams for the future. And so I came up with this thing that, I don't know. I don't know if this will stick, but so I turned 39 yesterday, and I met my husband when I was 29. So, I was kind of like thinking in like these 10 year time periods, like decades. And I was like, I feel like 19 to 29 was when I was in the discovery phase, and I was discovering what I wanted.

And I feel like there's something that happens in your early 20s when you really start to discern what you do just because everyone does it and what you do because you like to do it. Like, oh, I actually do really like this. It's not just because all my friends were doing this. And so I feel like that was the discovery phase.

I feel like 29 to 39 was the foundation. I was building the foundation of what I want my life to be. And I'm hoping that 39 to 49 will be like growing it. So, helping my kids to grow, growing in my marriage, growing my career, growing community. We moved when my oldest daughter was like four months.

So, we've lived in this area just for a little bit, so growing community here. And so really like that was kind of what I was dreaming about yesterday. Like, what do I want all of these things to grow into? And all of those things, like family is super important to me, travel. I'm so excited to be starting this career in writing and forming a community. All of those things feel very exciting to me.

Johanna Almstead:
So exciting. Do we have another book in the future? Do we know?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I hope so. So, I'm working on like some ideas of what that might be. There's nothing set in stone right now, but a lot of ideas that I'm working with, and I'm talking to my agent about right now. And there's like two ideas that hopefully will turn into a book in the near future.

But yes, I loved writing the book. I actually, I didn't say this before, but when I wrote the first book, I was like, "I don't know if I'll actually like writing the book because I'm so used to like writing and then sharing right away." But I really did love like the creative process of putting a collection together, and then like you said, putting it out into the world. So, I hope that many more books are in my future.

Johanna Almstead:
I hope so too. Okay, so now we're at the very exciting time of the lightning round of silly questions. Some of them are food related, some of them are not. Favorite comfort food?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I love Thai food. So, I would say like-

Johanna Almstead:
What's your go to order?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Green curry, tom yum soup and vegetable spring roll.

Johanna Almstead:
So, I'm like really hungry right now. That sounds so good.

Hannah Rosenberg:
And there's a place in my town, they do lunch portions, and I love getting the green curry for lunch. I could eat Thai food all the time.

Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I could too, actually. What was your first paid job, the first time you ever exchanged labor for money?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Babysitting. I'd say, babysat is like a young teenager.

Johanna Almstead:
Other than mothering and poetry writing, what is something you're really good at?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Keeping connected to friends.

Johanna Almstead:
What is something you're really bad at?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Meal prepping.

Johanna Almstead:
Favorite word? I feel like this is going to be hard for a poet. Just saying.

Hannah Rosenberg:
So hard. Joy.

Johanna Almstead:
Joy. Okay. Least favorite food, like deal breaker.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Tuna fish.

Johanna Almstead:
Tuna fish?

Hannah Rosenberg:
And oranges.

Johanna Almstead:
What?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I cannot stand them, and I love every other fruit.

Johanna Almstead:
What do you hate about oranges?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I don't know. I think it's something like biological, like the smell of them. I can't have them in the house.

Johanna Almstead:
No way.

Hannah Rosenberg:
And I like love other citrus, like grapefruit and [inaudible 01:05:40].

Johanna Almstead:
I was going to say, how do you feel about grapefruits and lemons and-

Hannah Rosenberg:
Fine, fine, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
What about a clementine?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Like on the fence. But like if someone is eating an orange on a bus or like I can't... I don't even like seeing orange peels. I don't know. It's so weird. I don't know.

Johanna Almstead:
That is wild. I've never heard that one before.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I know. It's weird. And tuna fish. I really don't like tuna fish.

Johanna Almstead:
Like canned tuna or-

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
... can you eat fresh tuna?

Hannah Rosenberg:
So, I'm a vegetarian. I don't eat fish, but I'm okay with if people have like tuna tartar or like that. Canned tuna fish, I don't like tuna fish sandwiches.

Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Least favorite word.

Hannah Rosenberg:
This is a common one, but like moist, [inaudible 01:06:20] that word.

Johanna Almstead:
We're not going to find that in any of your poems coming up.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I don't... Maybe I've used it. I don't know but oy.

Johanna Almstead:
It's wild. It's very common. Many, many, many people on this podcast have said that word.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Moist, yeah. It's weird. I don't know.

Johanna Almstead:
Do you have any hobbies?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I would say like yoga. I love yoga. Love walking, if that's a hobby. Love walking and audiobooks or walking and talking on the phone.

Johanna Almstead:
Those count. I think those count.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
Best piece of advice you've ever received.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Okay. These are two pieces of motherhood advice. So, kids will not learn by what you say, but what you do. And first time around, I was really struggling with, I went back to work and was like pumping around the clock, and my friend said, "Your daughter is never going to thank you for exclusively breastfeeding her. She's going to thank you for being a mentally healthy mom, so do whatever you need to do to be that."

Johanna Almstead:
Oh my God, I love that. Yep, they're never going to.

Hannah Rosenberg:
No.

Johanna Almstead:
They're never going to. They still haven't. I've been a parent for 12 years. No one has ever thanked me for breastfeeding.

Hannah Rosenberg:
And it's such weird. It's like something that you think about only when you're in that stage. I never thought about if I was breastfed before I became a mom.

Johanna Almstead:
And my kids actually think it's gross. When we do talk about it, they're like, "Ew." I'm like, "Fuck off. I kept you alive."

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. But if you are overwhelmed and stressed by it, just remember that.

Johanna Almstead:
Do whatever you need to do.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself-

Johanna Almstead:
Totally.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Because that's what will be important.

Johanna Almstead:
Right. If your personality were a flavor, what would it be?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Spicy.

Johanna Almstead:
Spicy.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I love spicy food, and I feel like I have a little... Yeah. [inaudible 01:08:01]

Johanna Almstead:
Is it like a Thai chili spice? Is it like a jalapeno? Is it like a wasabi? What's spice?

Hannah Rosenberg:
This is hard for me because I'm like, I love spicy food. Would I be spicy? I feel like I... Yeah, maybe I have a little bit of a loud personality. I talk loudly. I'm a middle child, so I like to be heard. I like to be... Yeah, I don't know. I'd say jalapeno.

Johanna Almstead:
Jalapeno, okay. Pickled or fresh?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Fresh.

Johanna Almstead:
Okay.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Although I love, I have bottles of Trader Joe's pickled jalapenos, which I put on everything. I love them.

Johanna Almstead:
Everything. Okay. Okay, last supper. You're leaving this earth and this body right now, but it's not sad. It's like celebratory. You're going to the next realm. It's all good. What are you eating tonight?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Okay. So, I know I said Thai food, but I'm going to do something different. I also love Mediterranean, Greek, Turkish food. So, I would say the most amazing Greek salad you've ever had, warm pita bread, a whole array of dips. So like hummus, different like muhammara, like the-

Johanna Almstead:
Eggplant dip and the-

Hannah Rosenberg:
Eggplant dip.

Johanna Almstead:
... feta and whatever.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Spicy feta, all of those, lots of things to dip in the dips, lots of pickled vegetables and huge tray of picking, marinated olives, all of that. Really good falafel, like soft falafel. Pickles, I love pickles. So yes, so just like a huge spread.

Johanna Almstead:
Mediterranean spread. Are you-

Hannah Rosenberg:
Mediterranean Turkish spread, yes.

Johanna Almstead:
... drinking anything?

Hannah Rosenberg:
On a daily basis, I like coffee with that meal. Coffee is my number one. It is my joy in life. During pregnancy, it tasted gross, and it was so sad for me. I absolutely love coffee.

But with that meal, I don't think I would have coffee. I love seltzer. I do. I'm a huge seltzer drinker. And then I'm like a one glass of red wine is like my sweet spot, like a really delicious red wine with that. So maybe I would have like regular water, a seltzer, and a glass of like a Malbec.

Johanna Almstead:
And then you could have coffee after the meal. You could have like a Turkish coffee.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. Yeah. I could drink coffee at night, anytime.

Johanna Almstead:
Do you drink coffee all day?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Mm-hmm.

Johanna Almstead:
You do?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
And it doesn't affect your sleep?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I mean, I'm in a particularly weird spot in my life where I could sleep anytime.

Johanna Almstead:
Right.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I've never been someone who has had chronic sleep problems, so it's never presented itself. I won't drink... My husband really will drink a coffee at like 10:00 PM, and he also loves coffee and be fine. I won't do that, but I would say I'll drink it until like 5:00 PM. I love like a 4:00 PM coffee, but then after that, I would drink a seltzer.

I also drink, like beer will give me a headache, but I love the non-alcoholic beer time we're in. I think I realized I actually do like the taste of it. I just don't like the alcohol in beer.

Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Beer always gives me headache too.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. But I love that there's like fun non-alcoholic beers now because it's like a fun drink to drink in the evening that won't leave me feeling icky.

Johanna Almstead:
I had this, so I can't drink beer normally because I don't eat gluten. And when I was pregnant, I craved beer all the time. And I was like, "Why isn't there a gluten-free non-alcoholic beer?" My husband was like, "I think that's just a little too niche. I think you're probably the only one in the world that wants that beer."

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes.

Johanna Almstead:
And I was like, "Come on. " I was so thirsty all the time and I wanted beer, but yeah.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah. I drank a lot of Diet Coke during pregnancy, which I know it's not great for you, but I craved fountain Diet Coke like crazy.

Johanna Almstead:
Really?

Hannah Rosenberg:
And I've heard other people say that too. I think the bubbles, the carbonation.

Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, and I really craved beer. I didn't really drink it, but it was sad. Okay, have you ever had a moment in your life where you had to eat your words?

Hannah Rosenberg:
A lot, because I'm not someone-

Johanna Almstead:
Any you would like to share?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I'm not someone who... I know some people think and then they speak, like my little sister, I'll say things to her and she'll take time to process and then say it. I speak as I'm thinking. Gosh, maybe I'm...

Okay, again, going back to parenthood, I feel like one of the things that my husband and I are realizing now with our three-year-old is they will repeat everything you say. So, when we tell her something to do, like she has a lot of energy, and my husband and I will be like, "Anaya, chill. It's okay." She'll chill, she'll chill.And she said to me recently, she was like, "Mom, chill." I was like, "Oh my gosh."

Johanna Almstead:
You're like, "You're not allowed to say that to me."

Hannah Rosenberg:
I was like, "Can you pick up your books?" And then I repeated that to her a few times. I was like, "Pick them up, pick them up." And she was like, "Mom, chill." So I was like, okay, well, I don't know if that's a [inaudible 01:12:36] ... But yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, it's hard. When you start hearing it back, you're like, "Oh, maybe that wasn't the best. Maybe that wasn't the best one."

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. I'm like, okay, now, yeah, just everything, yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
Where's your happy place?

Hannah Rosenberg:
In the morning when I'm visiting friends or they're visiting me, and we're on a couch and we just brewed coffee. And it's like the beginning of the day, we're sitting on the couch, we're catching up on life, and we're drinking coffee together.

Johanna Almstead:
You're settling in for the chat.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah.

Johanna Almstead:
Lovely. What did you have for dinner last night?

Hannah Rosenberg:
So, it was my birthday. So, we've got takeout at a Mediterranean place in my town and had [inaudible 01:13:22]-

Johanna Almstead:
Basically your last meal.

Hannah Rosenberg:
A really good Greek salad, a really... Dips and pita bread and pickle veggies and all of that.

Johanna Almstead:
Yum. You're making me so hungry. What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world? So big meeting with your agent or your publisher, signing, like something you need to feel great in.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I'm a dress person. I love buying dresses. If you were like, "Here's some money, go out and get something for yourself." I'm not like a shoe person, not makeup, but my closet is full of dresses. I love dresses.

Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Most memorable meal you've ever had?

Hannah Rosenberg:
I think I would say in the theme, we went to Istanbul, not this past fall, but the fall before. That was our first international trip where we took my first daughter, and there was a restaurant near our hotel that was absolutely the most amazing food I've ever had. And it was like what I just said. It was like all of the...

Johanna Almstead:
Deliciousness.

Hannah Rosenberg:
... all of the dips, all of the bread, all of the salads.

Johanna Almstead:
Go-to coping mechanism on a bad day, what do you do? Things are going sideways, kids are screaming.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Go for a walk.

Johanna Almstead:
Go for a walk.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yeah, go for a walk. I turn on an audiobook, turn on a podcast or call a friend and go for a walk, and 10 out of 10, feel better. Not always feel great, but feel better than when I started.

Johanna Almstead:
Dream dinner party guest list, dead or alive. They're all going to come. Don't worry about them not coming. Who's coming to your dinner party?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Okay. This is stressful because I'm like, is it people that I know? I'm not someone who's a huge fan person. There's so many actors and actresses that I love, but I don't know that I'd be like, "I absolutely have to meet them."

The people that I do, I just am their biggest fan is The Chicks. So, the three members of the band, The Chick... They're formerly Dixie Chicks. Now they just go by Chicks. Absolutely love them.

Johanna Almstead:
I love it.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Both of my daughters were born to songs playing from The Chicks. That was my labor playlist. So them, my grandparents, who I was very close to who have passed away, my grandparents, The Chicks, 10 of my best friends, my kids who are sitting at the table but well-behaved and enjoying the dinner. Our extended families because I love family.

Johanna Almstead:
Love it. That sounds like a good party. I want to know the conversation that's going to happen between the grandparents and The Chicks.

Hannah Rosenberg:
And The Chicks.

Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.

Hannah Rosenberg:
I feel like they would all love each other.

Johanna Almstead:
Okay. So, what is one thing you know for sure right now in this moment? You don't need to know it tomorrow. You didn't need to know it yesterday. What's the one thing that feels true to you right now?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Being kind to myself in this period of life is the most important thing.

Johanna Almstead:
So good. So, so good. Can you please tell people where to find you, your Instagram and your website and all the things? And the book is called Same by Hannah Rosenberg.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Same, yes.

Johanna Almstead:
Can you tell people where to find you?

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes. HannahRoWrites on Instagram is where I post the most poetry. I also, if you're a Substack person, I do have a Substack. I don't share as much on that, but Hannah Ro Writes on Substack. If you want to get in contact with me, I answer all my emails, Hannah@hannarowrites.com, and I have a website, HannahRoWrites.com. So yeah, and I love talking to people, hearing from people. So, please reach out if you feel compelled to do so.

Johanna Almstead:
Everybody reach out. Give her someone to talk to while she's home taking care of her newborn baby.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Yes.

Johanna Almstead:
Thank you so much for taking so much time with me today. I know that this is just such a precious time right now for you and I'm so glad that we got to share this. This conversation has been a gift. Your work is a gift. I'm really, really, really happy to know you now. And I hope everyone will go buy your book because it's really good.

Hannah Rosenberg:
Thank you so much, Johanna.

Johanna Almstead:
Oh, that was so fun. I really could have kept talking to her for hours and hours and hours. She's just so fun.

I hope you guys enjoyed that episode as much as I did. I hope you're inspired to just start something, to just do something every day or every week. Don't be the one saying no to yourself, right? If you know somebody who you think might like this episode, please send it to them. You can copy and paste it out of your media player, into a DM, into a text, into an email. We really, really appreciate it.

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This Eat My Words podcast was created, produced, and directed by me, Johanna Almstead. Our sound editor is Isabel Robertson, and our social media manager is Isabella Boutros.