Eat My Words

Johanna Almstead:
Hi, everyone. I am planning out my dinner for my next guest, and I think we're going to start with some bubbles. I'm feeling a little bubbly, so I'm going to open a little champagne. And to go along with that, I'm going to have a really fresh baguette straight from the bakery, and I think I'm going to do a baked brie with some fresh apple slices, some fig jam, some grapes, and just throw that in the oven, let it get all gooey, and then just put that baguette on the table and rip off pieces and slather that stuff on. And that's going to be where we're going to start. And then I think for dinner, I'm going to actually outsource dinner tonight. My husband makes the best roasted chicken. I don't understand why it's so good. He learned it actually at a culinary school that he went to.
So I'm going to ask him to make his roasted chicken, which is just delicious. And I'm going to do that with maybe mashed potatoes on the side, I'm going to just go cozy and homey and stuff. Some mashed potatoes, some grilled veggies, some grilled eggplants, some grilled zucchini, some grilled red peppers on the side. And then I think just a tossed salad with maybe some gem lettuce, a little shallot. And red wine vinegar keep it really light and easy because the mashed potatoes and everything are kind of heavy. And I think I'm going to open some red wine with that chicken.
Weirdly, I love roasted chicken and red wine. I think I'm going to do like a ooh, like a Barbaresco. I'm going to open a Barbaresco with that chicken. And for music vibes, my next guest is so calm and kind and lovely, so I'm going to keep it mellow. I think we're going to do maybe a little Zero 7, maybe a little ... You know Who I'm obsessed with is Jacob Collier. I'm going to add a little Jacob Collier into the mix tonight. I'm super excited for you to get to know this next guest. She's kind, she's funny, she's talented, she's got beautiful taste, and I'm really looking forward to it. So let's dig in.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Eat My Words, the podcast. I am so thrilled to be here and very, very grateful to all of you for listening. I still can't believe everyone keeps tuning in. I'm really excited to talk with my guest today because she is first and foremost, just lovely and fun. And we're going to talk about some of my absolute favorite things, which is horses and fashion and art, and breaking through our own sort of self-imposed bullshit barriers.
Cecelia Liu:
Bullshit barriers. I like that.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, bullshit barriers. My guest today has worked with digital and brand marketing teams of companies like Kate Spade New York, Esprit, Burberry, Calvin Klein, and Elizabeth Arden. She has lived and worked in Asia, New York, and now lives in Los Angeles. She is an incredible fine artist, which is this weird secret skill she's had and I didn't know until recently, who makes large scale drawings that sometimes take tens of twenties of hours to do. She's a wife, she's a daughter, she's a dog mom, and a horse girl at heart. She grew up riding horses and has always had a deep connection to them, but as it goes with many riders, as she built her career and was traveling around the world, her riding took a backseat to life.
She recently got back into riding and was reminded how much she needed it in her life. In late 2024, she launched a brand about riding. She launched the Equestrian inspired streetwear brand, Cecilia, which is built with the intention of creating more access to horses, horse culture, and their healing power. It's a culmination of her deep passion for horses, her artistic need and her fashion industry experiences creating essentially the dream job for yourself. And it is so stinking good. It's so beautiful. It's so sophisticated. It's so cool, and I'm so excited about it. Cece Liu, welcome to Eat My Words.
Cecelia Liu:
Oh my gosh, thank you. What a glowing introduction. It always sounds like out of body a little bit hearing about yourself, but thank you.
Johanna Almstead:
That's the idea because we forget, right? Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be here. We can tell our listeners, this is actually our third try of recording this episode.
Cecelia Liu:
Third time's the charm.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. So hopefully the house doesn't burn down or something while we're doing this. So let's just get into it.
Cecelia Liu:
Let's do it.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Can I ask how old you are and how old do you feel?
Cecelia Liu:
Ooh, I am 40. I probably feel 30-ish out of my twenties because who wants to be in their twenties.
Johanna Almstead:
Who wants to be in their twenties anymore?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. But still feeling like there's a lot of time left, which is good.
Johanna Almstead:
That's good. I think that's a good place to be.
Cecelia Liu:
But thirties, we're also kind of a train wreck, so maybe forties is also a good place to be.
Johanna Almstead:
Forties is great. I love my forties. I was so excited to turn 30. I was really ready to be out of my twenties, and then I was really happy to turn 40 too. I feel like it's just a whole different thing. And you're, in my mind, grownups were always in their forties, so you're like allegedly a grownup. I still don't know how that works out but whatever.
Cecelia Liu:
Appearances are everything.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, exactly. Okay, so where did your journey begin? When you think of your journey and where you have ended up now, where would you say it began?
Cecelia Liu:
Gosh, I think that it began, I mean, it really began in Shanghai. I was born in Shanghai, and I moved to the US when I was four. And I think for the longest time, I didn't have the experience of where I was from and I didn't have family around, and I didn't have ... I think a good portion of my late twenties into my early thirties was a big pull into what that was, exploring what that was.
Johanna Almstead:
Going back to your roots?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. So I do think that even though I'm very American in all aspects, I think it started in Shanghai because it's always been a very, very deeply rooted part of me. Can't get away from it.
Johanna Almstead:
So you were born in Shanghai, and then you moved to the US and then you lived in very Americana-y kind of places for your childhood, right?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. So my dad came over I think in '88, and my mom and I came over in '89. And back then, the only way you could come over was through either a research/student visa or a diplomatic visa. So my dad came over to do his master's at the University of South Dakota of all places.
Johanna Almstead:
That's a big jump. Shanghai to South Dakota.
Cecelia Liu:
Mount Rushmore. Yeah, he told me later, he was like, "It was either South Dakota or Sydney." And I was like, "Why did you pick South Dakota?" And he was like, "Well, I knew a few people there, and it just felt like less daunting." It was kind of the same to me. I mean, they were both going to be mysterious new places. I was like, "Oh, I could have had an Australian accent."
Johanna Almstead:
They're like, "Yeah, South Dakota, Sydney, same, same."
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. So I mean, it all goes to the choices that are made that kind of dictate the path that you go down. Right? So it was South Dakota, and then he finished his master's in Nebraska and then found work in Kansas City, and that's where I grew up predominantly from the age of probably 10 until I went off to college.
Johanna Almstead:
And you didn't go back to Shanghai very often as a kid, right?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. From four to 10, I didn't go back at all. And I remember it was so expensive to call back to Shanghai, so I didn't even get to talk to my grandparents that much. It was like a dollar a minute or something like that, which is crazy. And I remember when the technology first started letting us call back, there was an app called Viber that I used to call that was really cheap or free, but the connection was super terrible. But yeah, there was basically very little connection to Shanghai and the rest of my family, which was crazy. But once we did go back, it was the fall, I think I just turned 10 years old. And from that moment on, I would go back every single year. I would stay there for a little bit longer during the summers. I remember I was there when we rang in 2000.
And my cousin, she's eight years older than me, she has a lot of foreign friends. She was teaching Chinese to a lot of these foreigners. And I think that was also one of the first glimpses I had of like, "Wow, the world is so big," and it was the year 2000 and all these young professionals were partying it up in Shanghai and how do I get into this world? So it was definitely formative. I think Shanghai was definitely formative for me in that way. But on the other side, you had the Midwest, you have deep Americana. So it was an interesting mix for sure.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, such a dichotomy.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
So I always like to give people context of how we know each other. You and I worked together 15 years ago in New York. We were both part of the marketing communications team at Kate Spade, and we kept up over Instagram for many years when you were traveling all over Asia and coming back and whatever. And then a couple years ago, you started posting about this incredible art, these crazy drawings that I was like, "I had no idea. I thought you were just a cute little digital marketing girl."
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. A little secret.
Johanna Almstead:
And I also didn't even know back then that you were a horse girl. So I want to talk a little bit about, because you really have lived these two parallel paths of sort of true fine artist and then a business person and a fashion industry marketing person who's working in all these big brands and traveling the world doing it. So I want to talk to you a little bit about that balance between art and commerce and where does the artist live in you and where does the business person live in you, and do they talk to each other or are they two separate things?
Cecelia Liu:
I mean, I've been trying to figure that out my entire life. I think I'm just starting to crack the code a little bit. But I think this is where before what you talked about the whole, your internal bullshit kind of gets in your way a little bit because I mean, I'm super close with my parents and they're amazing. They're the best people in the whole entire world. But I think that because in the back of my head, I kept on thinking they had sacrificed so much coming to the US, there was always a little bit of, "I have to do whatever it takes to make them proud. I have to do whatever it takes to succeed."
Johanna Almstead:
And that was not being an artist.
Cecelia Liu:
That was not being an artist.
Johanna Almstead:
That was having a corporate job where you make real money.
Cecelia Liu:
That was having a career. Yeah. And when I look back to growing up, I don't know that my parents ever, they never were like, "You have to do this or you have to do this." It was always, I mean, the idea of having stability was always very important for them that I had stability. And for my dad, he always pushed me to be very independent. I don't know where he got it from either. The sort of independent woman thing I don't think was-
Johanna Almstead:
I was going to say, that's not traditionally Chinese, is it?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. It's not in his upbringing but I think he always just wanted me to be okay and self-sufficient and independent. That was where it all came from. It all came from love. So I think that it was self-imposed kind of, "You have to do this because you have to make your parents not worry. You have to make them proud. You have to do all of this."
Johanna Almstead:
And you didn't think you could be self-sufficient, right?
Cecelia Liu:
I didn't think so.
Johanna Almstead:
Going down the path of becoming an artist.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, because it was never role modeled for me either. And my parents group of friends, everybody were scientists or accountants or something that was a specific skill that made money. So it was never a role model for me, and I didn't quite know how to tackle it. I remember when I went to college, I'd actually enrolled in the undergraduate business school, and I thought that was kind of a good middle ground. I was like, "Well, marketing is kind of like you're touching on these different aspects of art direction and stuff." And so I went there, and then I remember I took a few classes in the art school and I took fashion design and I was like, "It's pulling, but I'm scared of it. I'm scared of how much I feel drawn to this. If I let myself, I'll definitely go down this route and kill my parents because they'll so scared."
Johanna Almstead:
That's a lot of self-discipline or suppression, which one, I'm not sure, at a young age.
Cecelia Liu:
I think it more suppression. I think it was more suppression at that stage. And I remember my mom and I had a moment, this was a little while ago during COVID, and she was like, because she had put me in two drawing classes Saturday or Sunday studio. I would go in for three hour studios and I would just draw. And then there was an instructor that would go around and teach us techniques and stuff like that. So it wasn't like you draw this particular thing, you draw whatever you want, and she'll come around and be like, "Oh, this is how you might make this look more realistic."
And I loved it, and I would stay in there and wouldn't want to leave. And I remember asking my mom, I was like, "Why did I not continue those classes?" And she's like, "Well, you just liked them so much that I was scared that you were going to fully become an artist." And that was really scary. But she didn't tell me that until much, much later. So I just found that really interesting that we both kind of had that feeling. We were both scared to let me go into that realm because for them too, it wasn't role modeled.
Johanna Almstead:
It was the deep unknown.
Cecelia Liu:
It was a deep, deep unknown. And for immigrants, it's like, "Why add another variable to the puzzle?"
Johanna Almstead:
Why make it even harder to survive?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
It's interesting though, because you're a lot younger than me, and this conversation has come up with several guests on this podcast where they were kind of afraid of their creative side for a very long time, and that it wasn't encouraged by their families or parents, and that the only measure of success was getting a job that you made money in, which I imagine, I guess hasn't changed it that much. But I feel like, I don't know, the way I raise my kids, at least I feel like we're much more aware of you can do anything and follow your dreams and find what clicks in your gut and whatever. I mean, maybe that's just me. Maybe there are other parents that are like, "Go out and be a lawyer," but ...
Cecelia Liu:
I'm sure there are.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I'm sure there are. But I feel like more so we have so many examples of people who push themselves into becoming a lawyer or a doctor or whatever, and not being satisfied and kind of squashing that creative side of themselves. So I think it's interesting that you had it yourself, but your mom also had it and you never talked about it back then.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, even when I was out there and I got to come see Tilia and Sage ride, which was so fun, but when you were like I think I've realized that I just need to do whatever I can to give Tilia the opportunities to ride because look at her. And Tilia is a natural rider. That girl on a horse is just ... She belongs in a saddle. And for you to kind of realize it, it's really cool.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I mean, my parents were definitely not having any of those conversations about anything. It wasn't like, "Oh, she really loves fashion. I need to find a way for her to go ..." They just weren't. And I think part of it is because I'm lucky enough to work in a job that is my passion and has been my passion for a really long time, I feel so strongly about helping her realize her dreams and letting them ... I mean, it's like our little Sage is this crazy whack-a-doo artist with mixed media and whatever, and we're always like-
Cecelia Liu:
She's pretty incredible little artist.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. And I'm like, "All right, well, go do it." My husband's always like, "Well, maybe she'll be broke and she'll live with us forever." I was like, "Maybe we should plan that." But I think it is something, because I now feel very, very grateful that I get to do what I love every day, that it's so important for me to be like, "Okay, I got to make this work. I got to make this work for them. I got to give them whatever scaffolding underneath them or infrastructure that they need to follow their dreams."
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. But again, I don't begrudge my parents. They did what they could and they gave me the tools that they could. And it's interesting now, I'm like, "You guys are pretty introspective for the generation that you are." To be able to say that to me and be like, "Hey, if I would've gone back, I would've done it differently." And then we cried and hugged it out and it was great.
Johanna Almstead:
But it's like they were just trying to survive and build a new life in a new country where they didn't know the language. I mean, it's just a whole different ... I mean, talk about first world problems. We really are dealing with much different circumstances than your parents ever would. And obviously your choices are going to be really different, but their choices made you who you are today.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. Totally.
Johanna Almstead:
So what was your first job in the fashion industry?
Cecelia Liu:
Well, it was at Kate Spade. I actually had a eight-month stint at one of the mega advertising agencies, J. Walter Thompson because I thought I wanted to be on Madison Avenue and all of that.
Johanna Almstead:
The glamour.
Cecelia Liu:
The glamour, and it was not. It was a very sort of machine. They brought a bunch of assistant account execs in and slotted you in whatever accounts they needed help on. And it was not for me. It was not touching any creative aspect or areas that ... I mean, I was on a Johnson & Johnson account, Neosporin and Purell. So I quit, not super glamorous. And then I was like, I remember going out to Santa Fe with my mom for a week, and I was like, "I'm just going to go back and apply to every single fashion company that I can get the HR contact to." And I sent out a bunch of resumes, cover letters being like, "I'll take whatever assistant job that you have, preferably marketing, but I'm not picky." And I went to a few different interviews and ended up getting an offer at Kate Spade and also Costume Nationale. Do you remember that?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. Would've been too-
Johanna Almstead:
That would've been a very different experience.
Cecelia Liu:
Totally. But Kate was kind of my hometown hero. She's from Kansas City, so I've known about her and I known her story, and it was kind of a no-brainer for me, honestly. So I came in, I was a receptionist.
Johanna Almstead:
Good way to start, everyone who's looking for a job. A lot of the people who ended up making it up the corporate ladder there started as receptionists.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. You get to know all the departments and you greet the people who come in, and sometimes you get chatting with them if they're nice. And it's an unexpected way, I think, to get to know the business and especially the kind of company Kate was at that point in time.
Johanna Almstead:
The culture.
Cecelia Liu:
The culture and everything. So it was really cool. And I probably did that for only six months or so. And then, I mean, I had my heart set in marketing, obviously, but it was either marketing or licensing, I think Marcy or Trish, basically.
Johanna Almstead:
Trish, who was just a guest on this podcast.
Cecelia Liu:
Oh my gosh, I can't wait to hear that one. Yeah, it was either Marcy or Trish. And I was like, "My heart's in marketing." So I went down that route, and that was kind of at the beginning stages, I guess, of e-commerce getting really big. So that was kind of the area of marketing then that it ended up focusing was e-commerce, digital and social. And that was the beginning of Instagram too, Instagram, Tumblr, figuring out what the brand looks like on Facebook. Gosh, so many memories of test and learn, test and learn.
Johanna Almstead:
I was remembering, when Trish was on, she reminded me that when I started working there, there was no e-commerce site. It was a content site. There was no shopping online.
Cecelia Liu:
Things we love. We had the things we love.
Johanna Almstead:
And behind the curtain, and they had playlists and they had all this stuff.
Cecelia Liu:
It was so cool.
Johanna Almstead:
It was so cool. I remember looking at it at the agency that I worked at before I came to Kate, I remember looking at the Kate website as an example of a content site, but there wasn't e-commerce yet, which is crazy. Yeah. But you were part of the team that really started the brand social media. I remember the meetings of going back and forth of 19 million people had to approve every Instagram post, and it was so bad and testing what we could do. And it was so hard because it was a brand that was so used to controlling its image in a very specific way, and then having to figure out this new media, which it really turned into an entirely new media landscape.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
But yeah, yu were part of that.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
[inaudible 00:21:45].
Cecelia Liu:
[inaudible 00:21:45] dream team. But it is also testament, I think, to the leadership there. I remember [inaudible 00:21:53], and we had a presentation to Craig and Kyle. I found the file file.
Johanna Almstead:
You were young.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, we were little, we were babies, but we had to basically present what the heck is social media and what the landscape was. And I had made this file, I actually found it the other day, but it was like, "This is what Instagram, this is what Twitter is, this is what Tumblr, and this is how they talk to each other. This is how Kate should be." I was like, "Wow." I was a little, I don't know, wanting to be a little expert.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. You kind of were though, because I think also it helped. I mean, I still am this way. I still rely on the youngins for social media advice. I think it's just like you grew up with it in a different way that a lot of us who were more senior in the brand at the time couldn't wrap our heads around. And so you had to be the experts. You guys were the ones that were natively using it more in your lives too.
Cecelia Liu:
But they were great. They were just like, "Okay, it sounds like you know what you're doing, so go for it." And I remember, I forget how it came through, but the New York Times wanted a quote from us because Kate was one of the first brands doing, and I go to Kyle, I was like, "Obviously it should be you." And she's like, "No, you're the one, you and [inaudible 00:23:11]. So you guys decide who ..." And I forget exactly how it happened, but I ended up getting quoted in the New York Times, and it's incredible for a young person, I think, who's just getting to be offered opportunities like that. But I think again, it's really a testament. And Kyle was on a little while ago, a few episodes ago, but really testament to also her leadership and the way that she really propped up her team and ultimately gave them a confidence in what they were able to do. So it was really special.
Johanna Almstead:
Totally. And a long, I don't like to use the word leash, but it is kind like give you enough leeway to try it, not just micromanage it. She understood that there were times where you had to let go and let people do what they were going to do, and sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. And that was okay too.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, she was awesome.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, so you stayed at Kate for how many years?
Cecelia Liu:
Oh, I was at Kate for I think almost five years. Then my China itch really started to kick in, and I was like, "I really want to work in that environment." And there was a lot of exciting things I think going on in China at that time. They're closed off. They're still closed off from the western world, so they have a whole different digital infrastructure.
Johanna Almstead:
They have their entire, another digital subculture that's only Chinese, right?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, only Chinese. And they can't access any ... they can't access Google. They can't access anything meta. So I left Kate to go to an agency, Laird and Partners, which is no longer, although I think Trey Laird started something new recently I've seen. But anyway, I was there with the hopes that they had a lot of interest in going into China, and so I was really hoping that that would be my way into going into the China market. But we were probably about a year into that, and they were like, "Oh," because I think one up there that counts that I worked on was Tommy Hilfiger in PVH, and they were based in Holland, I think, in Amsterdam. And so they were like, "Okay, that's looking more likely." So I was like, "Okay, I'm not going to be able to get to Shanghai there." So I just popped up and left and left without a job, and ...
Johanna Almstead:
You were just determined to move to Shanghai and then ...
Cecelia Liu:
Figure out.
Johanna Almstead:
Your next step once you got there.
Cecelia Liu:
And I think I also felt like I had enough of a safety net there. Obviously my family was there, but I had also met a few people, which was eventually how I found my job there. I met a few people in the industry because again, e-commerce and fashion and consumer goods, they were really popping off in China at that point. So 2012, moved to Shanghai.
Johanna Almstead:
Just picked up and moved all by yourself.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. Well, the guy I was dating at that time, but we don't like to talk about him.
Johanna Almstead:
There you go. Okay. We won't. Okay. And so then what did you do? How did you find your way in Shanghai?
Cecelia Liu:
So a friend of mine, he was working for Nike who was head of digital for Nike, and they were working with a Chinese agency that handled all of their e-commerce basically. So there's a platform called Tmall, Taobao/Tmall in China, which is kind of equivalent to a US Amazon, except they figured out how to bring luxury brands onto the platform. So the Tmall section of this platform was dedicated to brands, fully brands. So Nike opened there. So instead of a Nike.cn, it was a Tmall store, a Nike Tmall store, and that was the majority of their eCommerce business. So I was introduced to the founders of Baozhong, the Chinese agency via my Nike friend, and I just thought that that was going to be the quickest way that I could learn about the entire ecosystem. So it was definitely a bit of baptism by fire.
Johanna Almstead:
I can imagine.
Cecelia Liu:
Both in language, which my Mandarin was not great when I first got to China. I'd taken Chinese classes at the university, but it was really being in meetings all the time.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, business language is different than sometimes just normal conversation, right?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, for sure. And I was doing mostly new business and strategy for them. What types of brands to bring in. Kate Spade, of course I tried ... I think it took, it was after I left that Kate Spade eventually got into Tmall.
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, really?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, I wasn't able to bring them in, but I did bring in Burberry and I brought in Calvin Klein and a few other brands. But it was really interesting because all the Western brands were trying to figure out what the heck they should be doing.
Johanna Almstead:
I was part of the team that launched the Kate Spade brand in China, and it was not an easy feat.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. So that's what I did in Shanghai.
Johanna Almstead:
Amazing.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. And then I got recruited to go to Hong Kong by Esprit, which is a brand that I'd always loved, the Heritage brand. It was just so iconic, everything that they did. So I went to Hong Kong as part of the team that was trying to turn around the brand and get back to its roots a bit, but it's one of the hardest things to do, to turn something like that that's been around for so long with so many hands in the pot. So we did a few really cool collaborations with opening ceremony to try to bring-
Johanna Almstead:
Oh, very cool.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. To really tap into that nostalgia, but it was just too, I think, flash in the pan. So I was there in Hong Kong for about four years. So Shanghai and Hong Kong together about six, and then I was just super burnt out. I was traveling a ton. The Hong Kong lifestyle is pretty work hard, play hard.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Imagine you weren't sleeping a lot.
Cecelia Liu:
Wasn't sleeping a lot.
Johanna Almstead:
Although one thing about the Hong Kong work culture that I really liked was instead of going out drinking after dinner, we would go and get foot rubs and have business meetings with my partners. That, I was like, "Why are we not doing this all over the world? This is amazing." At 11 o'clock at night.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, the foot massages. Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
Yes. After a big work dinner, instead of going to a bar, our partners would be like, "Hey, let's go get foot massages and be talking business." And it was amazing.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
So anyway, that's how you kept going.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, that's how you kept going. Exactly. Foot massages, lots of massages. I missed that part about Asia to be honest.
Johanna Almstead:
So good.
Cecelia Liu:
It's the perfect treat after business. You want to talk business when you're having a massage.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I was like, "Yes, I want to do this all day long. This is amazing."
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
So you were burnt out.
Cecelia Liu:
I was pretty burnt out, and so I was like, "I think it's time to come back to the US." My mom had already retired, but my dad was thinking about retirement. They were still living in Kansas City, and I knew I didn't want to go back to New York. I think I'd gotten really spoiled because Hong Kong has a ton of nature. I hike all the time. It's an island.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. It's a bustling city, but then you're right there in the mountains and water. Yeah.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. So I really wanted that and I was like, "What's a big city and has that?" Well, it's LA. So I said, "Hey, mom and dad, I'm moving to LA." My dad's like, "Great, I'm retiring." So 2019, they moved over a year before I did actually, and I moved in 2019, not too long, six months before-
Johanna Almstead:
I love that your parents were like, "Great, we'll meet you there."
Cecelia Liu:
It's the great thing about being an only child, I think, good and bad because the responsibility is all on you, but then you get the benefit of them going wherever you go.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Cecelia Liu:
That's pretty nice too.
Johanna Almstead:
And I love the sort of, it feels to me, particularly Chinese, at least most of my friends who have this situation are Chinese, which is the parents are like, "Okay, you're grown now. We're coming to you." And they want to be part of your life and they want to help raise your kids and they want to do all this, and I think that's amazing. It's not like you have to move back home to wherever they are. They're like, "No, we're coming to you. We're going to just pick up our lives and make it about you now," which I think is amazing.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, I think it's instilled in them. They were like, "Well, we moved to the US when we were 34, 35," I guess, at that time, and it's just instilled in them. We go wherever the kid goes.
Johanna Almstead:
I love it.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
So then you landed back in LA and you eventually decided to start your own brand, right?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
What was the path that got you there?
Cecelia Liu:
I consulted for a bit because I think having the China experience was a really good selling point. That's where most of my consulting work was basically brands that were thinking either about a China/Asia presence or were there already and were working with partners that were like, "What the heck? Is this right? Is this wrong? We have no idea." So I was able to find a decent amount of consulting work, but it wasn't going to be my thing.
Johanna Almstead:
Your forever thing.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, it wasn't. It was my landing in LA and let me see what the city has to offer me and tell me where to go. So it wasn't a straight route to starting Cecilia. A few things definitely played. Getting back into horses finally, after all those years. My husband actually bought me riding lessons for my birthday one year, and he was like, "You talk about horses all the time. Why aren't you riding?" I was like, "I really don't know." It seemed a little, I think, intimidating. Coming to LA, there's so many opportunities to ride, but I think that's one of the things we talked about it, with riding, it's not really accessible even with somebody who's done it before who knows kind of a little of what they're looking for, it's still kind of murky waters.
Johanna Almstead:
Still feels like this very unknown world.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, yeah. So it's a little intimidating, but the lessons put me back into writing and from there I kind of figured out where my place was. So that was really-
Johanna Almstead:
I have a funny story.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
A friend of mine who was a rider and she was a big rider. In high school, she showed and did all the crazy things and she hadn't ridden in years, and she was like, her kids are younger than mine, a year younger than Tilia and a couple years younger than Sage, the two kids. And I had one of Tilia's birthday parties at the horse farm that we first started riding at, and I had the opportunity, I could pay extra and have a big horse available that parents could get on, and it was essentially a grownup pony ride.
It was somebody just walking them around, but I made her get in the saddle. I was like, "You have to do a ride." She's like, "I'm not getting on a grownup pony ride. That's so absurd." She's very fancy and competitive and stuff. And I was like, "Just get on the damn horse. You haven't been on a horse in 20 years. Come on." Fast forward now, that was several years ago, she owns a horse again, is competing. She's jumping. And I'm like, "All you have to do is just get back in the saddle."
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. We're definitely on that journey.
Johanna Almstead:
Your husband had no idea what that birthday gift was going to unlock?
Cecelia Liu:
No, he had no idea.
Johanna Almstead:
We have another friend actually who bought her daughter riding lessons on a Groupon. Do you remember Groupons?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
And she's like, "It's the most expensive Groupon I've ever bought in my life," because now her daughter's a huge rider and is traveling all the world and going to WEF and going to Europe. And she's like, "What did I get myself into?"
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. I've met a lot of people who are in pony horse sales, bringing them in from Europe and training them up, going to shows and then selling them. What if I can finance my horse?
Johanna Almstead:
Finance your horse habit with selling them.
Cecelia Liu:
Bringing horses over? I don't know. I don't know.
Johanna Almstead:
I think that's what some people do. I really do.
Cecelia Liu:
It is. It's a full-fledged business for some people.
Johanna Almstead:
People realize they have to have an entire other side hustle to pay for their hobby.
Cecelia Liu:
Right, exactly. Anyway.
Johanna Almstead:
So you got back to riding.
Cecelia Liu:
I got back to riding and I got back to drawing. So I think I left this tangent a little while ago, but I've just been a drawer. I love drawing since I was a teeny tiny kid. And then my mom put me in those weekend studios.
Johanna Almstead:
That terrified everybody involved.
Cecelia Liu:
That terrified everybody involved. And I think it was also very easy for me to pick up a pencil and on a piece of paper. When I lived in New York or Hong Kong, our spaces were tiny and my schedule was crazy. So there was not a lot of time or space to have a creative outlet, but I was able to do that with drawing. And it was always horses. Always, always, always horses.
Johanna Almstead:
You always drew horses.
Cecelia Liu:
I always drew horses. I remember when I was a kid, I had this book that was all the horse breeds of the world, and I would just draw on computer paper and color pencils. I would draw everything. I probably learned the breeds. I probably still know every single breed in that book.
Johanna Almstead:
Every breed and their musculature.
Cecelia Liu:
Exactly, exactly. And what colors they come in and all of that. So it was one of those things that had to, I think, come out at some point. So I started riding. I got myself a studio outside of the house that had bigger walls that I could draw bigger and bigger because I finally had the space to see what I could do. And I think that's when I started posting more of those. And that's probably what you saw. They were the size of me.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, they were huge.
Cecelia Liu:
And so those were, I think the two things that I got back into that felt like a connection to me as a kid, what I was drawn to naturally.
Johanna Almstead:
What made you happy.
Cecelia Liu:
And what made me really happy that kind of then turned into Cecilia because the other side is that I couldn't divorce myself from my career. You know what I mean? I had such incredible experiences and I love building brands and building worlds, and to a certain extent you can do that in fine art, but I don't think to the breadth and the depth that I was hoping to get to that you could with a brand, with a lifestyle brand.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. And it's hard to have so many touch points when it's fine art. You don't get to reach as many consumers as you can when you're selling horse person T-shirts that I'm wearing today.
Cecelia Liu:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
Right. You're selling a T-shirt or you're selling a scarf or you're selling something else. So I think that's an interesting, we talk a lot about this, about this idea of making it accessible and bringing the art into a place that is not only just fashion, but is something that people can have in their everyday lives as opposed to a ginormous piece that hangs in a gallery or hangs on their wall.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, exactly. And then I started thinking about the brand, I think in the beginning of 2024. Took about a year to figure out where to produce, what to make, what I wanted the first collection to look like. And then we launched in December.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, that's not a long incubation period, to start dreaming about the brand and to have launched within the same year is like, that's pretty quick.
Cecelia Liu:
Is it? I feel like that's what people say but it felt like forever. It felt like ... And then we had to keep delaying it because, of course, I don't know what I'm doing in production. I'm just trying to figure out. So we had to delay it even a little further. So I think I was just really impatient to get it out into the world.
Johanna Almstead:
What made you break down your bullshit barrier with this brand? What made you finally take the risk to do it?
Cecelia Liu:
There was probably a moment because I didn't feel rooted, I think, in what I was doing because I had my hand in so many different jars, pots, whatever you want to call it. I had consulting work. I had been working with this beauty startup for a little while, and I was like, "I feel so floaty and fragmented, but what do I want to dedicate my life energy to? What world do I want to be in day in, day out? What do I want to surround myself with?" And so I did a lot of journaling. I did a lot of ...
I'm a very visual person, so I took out huge pieces of paper and was like, "What is my perfect day? If I had no responsibilities, what would I be doing?" And then it kind of eventually got to the point where I was like, "Okay, well, I think I just need to jump in. Everything's pointing to this direction. Why am I still afraid of it? Why am I still afraid of something that's going to let me be creative every single day, that's going to let me live within the world of horses and art every single day? Why am I afraid of it?" And it was definitely fear that was keeping me from it.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, I mean it usually is. That's with everybody, right? It's like fear of failure, fear of success often.
Cecelia Liu:
Fear of success.
Johanna Almstead:
Fear of indulging your deepest desires, your deepest dreams.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean, I think that sometimes it's like I have moments where I'm like, "Is it really this good? Could it possibly be this good? Could my life be this good?" That's scary.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. It's really scary. And I think the immigrant kid in me, that's the bullshit barrier. Right? It's like some of those habits and the ways of thinking that I've trained myself being very conservative in certain ways because you should always opt for stability as opposed to the other thing. I think those were the things that I didn't realize how deep they were. And it's really interesting because my husband grew up quite differently from me, and he's honestly been an incredible support system because he was like, "I see the creativity that's boiling in you and it's killing you. So we got to figure out how to make that a part of your mission, what you do in life."
But he grew up pretty privileged and he was very artsy and was able to pursue English as his major in college and all of that. And he's a creative professional now, and he's kind of gone down a route where he hasn't had to worry ... He had to worry about a lot of other stuff, but it wasn't stability, it wasn't money, it wasn't all of that stuff. And so I think seeing and learning deeply about his own journey was super helpful for me.
Johanna Almstead:
Gave you the courage to take the leap.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Sometimes all you need to see is that it's possible, right?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. It's role modeling. Going back to what I was saying earlier, he is in some ways like a role model. This is a route that you can definitely take and be successful at it and you know how to, so why don't you?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. And now I know you're still very close with your parents and they're your shipping and receiving department, correct?
Cecelia Liu:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
So what do they say about this? Because this is probably out of their comfort zone, huh?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, I think they've ... Listen, I think that they still wish that I had a corporate job and-
Johanna Almstead:
Do they?
Cecelia Liu:
... it was more stable, but I think they see it in that a startup in whatever degree requires a lot of work. When we did that pop-up in Old Salem, lugging suitcases and setting up things, trudging through rain, there's definitely a work in getting your hands dirty.
Johanna Almstead:
The schlep is real, I like to say.
Cecelia Liu:
The schlep is so real, and I think for them, they're like, "Well, you've worked almost 20 years by now. Shouldn't you have a cushier job?" And I was like, "I guess, but I wouldn't trade this for anything." Being able to spend your work day in the middle of an international horse competition, these are my childhood dreams. So I think their perspective is still not totally turned around because of who they are and their experiences, and that's totally fine. But I think that they're really excited because I think they see how happy it makes me, and they were like, "I guess you can do this."
Johanna Almstead:
You're like, "Well, watch me try. Here goes."
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
So I want to shift a little bit back to the actual horses and riding because I think I want to talk about it because I'd love to, but also I just want to talk about what are some lessons that you've learned from horses or from riding, because I think there's many, right?
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. We had a schooling show at my barn over the weekend, and I was there just hanging around because it's my favorite place in the world.
Johanna Almstead:
That's what we horse girls do.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. And there was a walk track class, so tiny little tikes, and this one little girl fell off. She was totally okay, but falling off in the show ring is legit. You could be so high, you're confident, you got your outfit, you look great, your horse looks great. You're in the ring and all of a sudden you're rock bottom. And I was just chatting to her dad afterwards and I was like, "This is why horseback riding, if she really gets into, it's the best confidence booster in the world." The horses serve you humble pie every single time you ride them, but there's something that draws you to want to get back up because it's a love, whatever you want to call it.
You get back up on that horse and you get back to that high point again, so you know that it's always going to be possible. So then every time you fall, it's literally get back on the horse and you'll find that high point again. So I think that that's like we talked about horse girl swagger and all that, but I think that's where it comes from. It's like the confidence of being able to commune with this 1,500 pound animal for you to connect with it in a way that you start building a really strong bond and you start really like ... I don't know, it's this weird, you can talk to a different species kind of thing, and it's a secret. It's the secret society of horse girls.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah.
Cecelia Liu:
It's pretty cool.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Tilia of in particular because she was a non-rider and then she was a rider, whereas her little sister sort of grew up being a barn rat with her sister riding. So it's like hers is a little more gray area, but Tilia, she was didn't ride in the road, and I always say she's a different person than she was when she didn't ride. She became so confident, and she has that swagger that really nothing can take it away from you. So I think it's amazing. I guess I want to talk about, because the brand is obviously people who love horses are going to love it, but we have found that lots of people love it who are not horse people. What do you think are some of the attributes that are sort of horse girl attributes that non horse people can relate to or the parts that make them want to be a part of the brand other than the fact that it's beautiful? Because it is beautiful.
Cecelia Liu:
Thank you. I mean, I've just made some incredible connections since I've launched everywhere and along the spectrum of have always wanted to be a horse girl, but hasn't made that step to is a deep horse girl and is showing at Grand Prixs around the world and everything along that spectrum. I think that for those that are not a horse girl, I think a lot of it is the aesthetic beauty and the symbolism of what they represent. You go anywhere in a wide open space or usually you associate that with horses and galloping and freedom and all of those things. They're just really beautiful and majestic animals and the parts of riding that are so chic and elegant, like the saddle and the hardware and bridles hanging in tack rooms. The tack rooms, clean tack rooms are just the most elegant things. And then you have your blankets that are hung up and everything about the equestrian world is kind of beautiful because there's heritage and there's craftsmanship associated with every piece of gear really that is used to ride. So I think aesthetically it definitely triggers something beautiful and sensorial.
Johanna Almstead:
It's interesting too that you say that because there is no modern gear, really. You're still using these beautiful handcrafted saddles and barns are made out of beautiful wood. They're not made out of weird aluminum siding. It's interesting that it does stay sort of old feeling and really natural. One of our mutual friends, Caitlin, laughed at me when I posted pictures of the girl's first horse show, and she was like, "Of course you found the sport that has the chicest uniforms." I was like, "Oh yeah, yeah, no, we're not doing baseball over here. None of that business."
Cecelia Liu:
No, especially where you live, something drew you to that area. Some of the barns out there are so incredible. So I think those are for the non-riders. And then I think for the riders, it's like usually the way that this world is represented feels like either a bit harsh, very formal, which is beautiful. The show coats and your whites for show jumping and stuff like that and the braids, all those things are really beautiful, but sometimes it can feel a bit stiff and harsh, and I think especially the more technical riding brands that make the actual breeches and the show shirts and things like that, they're kind of restricted to a very specific silhouette because you have to use it to-
Johanna Almstead:
Right. It has to work to ride an actual horse.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, exactly. And so for what I'm doing, it's much more lifestyle. It's much more like, "I saw this somewhere online the other day and I kind of love it." It's like from bar to brasserie instead of from stable to the streets, which is another way to say it, but it really is. It's like my trainer who's Belgium, she wears these really beautiful, I'm guessing there's some sort of wool lower up alpaca sweaters when she's training, when she goes to shows. That's kind of her look and that's ... I don't know, there's things about not necessarily being on a horse, but being around a horse that I kind of want to bring into the fold. It's not always about your black boots and your jodhpurs or your breeches and things that it's more about the symbol of the horse or the more whimsical, cheeky bits about it that's not quite so formal.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I think that's one thing you've nailed is sort of the whimsy and the fun around it. The playfulness.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
What is something you once believed about yourself that you have since outgrown?
Cecelia Liu:
I think that I believe that I was a very shy person, which I do think I am, but it's one of those things that I've learned that it doesn't serve me because being shy I think is also a result of you don't want to be embarrassed, you're fearful of something. Those things that can kind of hold you back, your own bullshit barriers. So when I tell people that, that I used to be really shy, they don't really ever believe me, which I guess is a good thing, I was able to shake it.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, that you can overcome it.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Is there anything that you've said no to that you wish that you said yes to?
Cecelia Liu:
I think I've said yes to pretty much everything. I don't like the word no.
Johanna Almstead:
I agree.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah. I think if anything, it's probably I've said yes to things that I shouldn't have, but I guess that's the problem I'm willing to plow through.
Johanna Almstead:
To navigate.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay, so we're going to get to our lightning round of silly questions.
Cecelia Liu:
Okay.
Johanna Almstead:
Don't overthink it. First thing that pops to your mind.
Cecelia Liu:
Okay.
Johanna Almstead:
Favorite comfort food.
Cecelia Liu:
Wonton soup.
Johanna Almstead:
What is something you are really good at?
Cecelia Liu:
I think I'm a really good listener. Yeah. I'm a good listener.
Johanna Almstead:
What is something you're really bad at?
Cecelia Liu:
I'm really bad at introducing myself.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Well, now you're just going to repeat the intro that I said.
Cecelia Liu:
Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
You're just going to walk out and play it on your phone, and then someone's going to be like, "Okay."
Cecelia Liu:
Be like, "Tada."
Johanna Almstead:
What is your favorite word?
Cecelia Liu:
Yes.
Johanna Almstead:
What's your least favorite word?
Cecelia Liu:
No.
Johanna Almstead:
What is your least favorite food? Because I feel like you're a pretty adventurous eater. What is something that you will not eat?
Cecelia Liu:
The things I don't like to eat usually have to do with textures, so really chewy stuff, I don't like to eat, like insides, animal insides. Actually, we haven't been eating that much meat, which feels really good, but I'm pretty adventurous.
Johanna Almstead:
Okay. Best piece of advice you've ever received?
Cecelia Liu:
I think that would have to be ... I've received so many good pieces of advice in my life, but I guess one that always stands out was, she was the parent of a friend and she had said to me, "Never lose your sparkle."
Johanna Almstead:
Aw.
Cecelia Liu:
I know, which it's something that's always stuck with me, which is, I guess it translates into never lose the person that you are, who you are naturally like your spirit, how you present yourself to the world. Don't dull that down for any reason, for anyone, for any purpose, to really-
Johanna Almstead:
I love that.
Cecelia Liu:
... be yourself. But the way that she put it-
Johanna Almstead:
I'm going to tell my kids that.
Cecelia Liu:
The way she put it, I think has always stuck with me because it's so simple.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. If your personality were a flavor, what would it be?
Cecelia Liu:
Ooh, this is a good one. I think hot and spicy like Szechuan. Does that count?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah, that counts. For sure. Okay, so it's your last supper on earth. You're leaving this body tomorrow. You are leaving this earth tomorrow. What would your last meal be?
Cecelia Liu:
Definitely home cooked. It has to be a spread because I can't just choose one dish.
Johanna Almstead:
It's got to be a spread.
Cecelia Liu:
Like family style. My mom makes this, it's not a very well-known Chinese dish, but it's basically she makes a powder from roasted rice and pepper and different peppers and spices, and then she coats pieces of the pork. It has to be quite fatty pork, and then she steams it, and then it's the most amazing, and then you eat it with rice that has to be on there.
Johanna Almstead:
That sounds delicious.
Cecelia Liu:
And her chicken soup.
Johanna Almstead:
Chicken soup.
Cecelia Liu:
And probably the wontons too.
Johanna Almstead:
I was going to say, are there any wontons or noodles in the chicken soup?
Cecelia Liu:
No, the chicken soup is very clear. It's like a thing. The skill of the chef is tied to how clear the chicken soup is, so it has to be very clear.
Johanna Almstead:
Is that why on menus it'll say clear broth?
Cecelia Liu:
Maybe, yeah. It's a thing.
Johanna Almstead:
Because I feel like several Chinese food menus, it'll just say clear broth soup. And you're like, "Okay." I didn't know this was a thing. Okay, tell me more.
Cecelia Liu:
You can't let it boil, basically, you can't let it break the surface, because that'll stir everything up and make it crazy.
Johanna Almstead:
And that gets it all like particles.
Cecelia Liu:
And so it has to be monitored very closely. And then you have to skim off the top everything that comes to the surface, so it's as close to water as you can get it to look. It's like your skill, it denotes your skill basically as a chef.
Johanna Almstead:
But it's super tasty and delicious because you got all the good chicken flavor into it.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
Does it have pieces of chicken in it too, or is it just the broth?
Cecelia Liu:
Normally, I think it's served with chicken. My mom puts in mushrooms, like dried mushrooms, like the wood ear mushrooms and shiitakes. So there's this area of China called Yunnan, which is in the Southwest, and they make their own version of a hamon or a prosciutto, like a salted pork. And usually you put a tiny sliver of that in the chicken soup just to add a tiny bit of saltiness and umami.
Johanna Almstead:
That sounds delicious.
Cecelia Liu:
Sometimes people will put bamboo in there depending on the season, but that's the chicken soup that I grew up on and that-
Johanna Almstead:
And that's what you crave.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, that's what I crave. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
That sounds delicious. I want to come to that one. Have you ever had a moment in your life where you've had to eat your words?
Cecelia Liu:
Oh my gosh, so many. Yeah. I can't think of a specific example right now, but I sometimes don't think, especially when amongst friends, I don't think when I talk, which can sometimes not be the best, but I can't think of a specific situation, but I definitely have.
Johanna Almstead:
It's almost like you don't even need to know the situation. All you have to do is remember that feeling.
Cecelia Liu:
That feeling.
Johanna Almstead:
Of like, "Oh, I just want to press rewind."
Cecelia Liu:
Did I just say that?
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. Okay. So What do you wear when you feel like you need to take on the world? Big meeting or a big event or something where you really are like, you need to shine? What is your go-to power outfit?
Cecelia Liu:
Oh my gosh. I think that it changes for me. Sometimes and it's usually the last thing that I bought is what will make me feel the best, but it ranges from having a really big statement sweeping like long sleeve gown if I really want to make a statement and sometimes it's a really nice ... I remember when I was living in Hong Kong, one of my splurges after I got my first big bonus, I went and got a Dior blazer that has this little flair, so that one was my go-to for a little while. Blazers, you can throw on top of so many things, so that was power suit.
Johanna Almstead:
Power move.
Cecelia Liu:
But usually it's kind of like whatever kind of statement I bought most recently it makes me feel real good.
Johanna Almstead:
It makes you feel good because it's like in the vibe that you're in at that point in your life.
Cecelia Liu:
Exactly. Exactly.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. I go through phases where I'm like, "I am definitely a blazer and a high-waisted pant person," and then I'm like, "No, I'm into dresses." I'm very not into dresses right now.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, I think heels, heels are important. If you put on a good pair of shoes, even though most people won't see them, it really elevates. And I'm little, I'm five foot two, so those four inches I can get from heels are really important.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. If you had to eat one food for the rest of your life, what would it be like every day, all day?
Cecelia Liu:
I think they would be dumplings of some sort. Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
I mean they're kind of a complete food.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, I think so.
Johanna Almstead:
What's your go-to coping mechanism on a bad day?
Cecelia Liu:
I will put on music for sure, whatever vibe. Usually it's some sort of like jazz, just rhythm, sonic music. I'll make some version of coffee, a yummy coffee drink because I'm not much of a tea person or hot cocoa, and I'll curl up with a heating pad and a book.
Johanna Almstead:
Love a heating pad and a book.
Cecelia Liu:
Even if I'm not necessarily achy, it just makes you feel warm all over. Or I'll go to the barn.
Johanna Almstead:
Yeah. That's a good one too.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah.
Johanna Almstead:
What is one thing you know for sure right now in this moment?
Cecelia Liu:
I know that I'm on the right path to building something that I'm meant to build.
Johanna Almstead:
Amazing. I love that. Please tell us, tell our listeners where we can find the brand.
Cecelia Liu:
Yeah, we can find the brand that Instagram handle is DearCecilia__ and the website is DearCecilia.com.
Johanna Almstead:
And you also have a Substack?
Cecelia Liu:
Yes. I also have a Substack. It's called Hippology, which is the study of horses, basically. I think it's Hippology.substack.com and I collaborate on it with another rider, horse obsessed woman who also is an incredible graphic designer, art director. She actually does the identity and collateral or her agency does for the Saut Hermès like the Grand Prix shows they find-
Johanna Almstead:
When are we going to that? That's what we need to figure out is when are we going. It needs to be a trip that happens.
Cecelia Liu:
It needs to be a trip. Yeah. Inspiration trip of course.
Johanna Almstead:
And where can people see your art?
Cecelia Liu:
They can go to CeceLiu.com and I have my recent pieces there.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, thank you, thank you. Thank you for taking your time out of what I know is a really crazy day running your own brand, and I'm so grateful that you were here and that you shared your story.
Cecelia Liu:
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me on. This was so fun.
Johanna Almstead:
Well, that was a really fun episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. As always, we are eternally grateful and I'm still sort of surprised that people keep listening, so thank you, thank you, thank you. If you are enjoying this podcast, please make sure you subscribe to it, make sure you like it, share it with your friends, and if you are feeling up to it, if you could leave us a five-star review, that would be amazing. As you know, we're actively trying to grow this community, so things like that actually matter. Follow us on Instagram. Follow us on TikTok. We're at Eat My Words, the podcast. Get in those comments and tell us what you're thinking about. Tell us what you want us to be thinking about and talking about, and as always, I'm eternally grateful for you for tuning in and we'll see you next time. This podcast has been created and directed by me, Johanna Almstead. Our producer is Sophy Drouin. Our audio editor is Isabel Robertson and our brand manager is Mila Bhujna.